Liberated Christians
PO Box 55045, Phoenix Az 85078-5045
Promoting Intimacy and Other-Centered Sexuality
COPYRIGHTED 1997-2003 ALL RIGHTS RESERVED - MAY BE REPRINTED OR QUOTED FROM ONLY IF CREDIT IS
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Single Men In Swinging
While their are many wonderful sincere single men that seek to be involved
in responsible non-mongamy, there are two big problems single men face.
1) The vast majority of couples only want to relate to other couples, and especially in
our group want to develop couple to couple friendships that is much more than just sex.
This is especially true for new couples since sharing only with other couples creates less
jealousy issues.
Later they may become involved in the Lifestyle without having to always be together with
their partner but there still is more a sense of security when they know the other person
is also in a strong primary relationship.
Also, many single men tend to want to cling to a women and are much more desperate for sex
than a couple that are already sexually fulfilled but simply want more variety and more
friendships with others that have a strong primary relationship. Many experienced couples
have experienced this and want nothing to do with single men based on these bad
experiences.
A couple wrote about why they only swing with couples:
"Our lifestyle
implies sharing the person we love more than anyone else in the world, with another
person. Whether married or not, a couple is a man and a women that care about each other's
well being. It is much easier to relax and enjoy the company of others when you know that
you are with people who care about their partners. You will feel a sense of safety and
security, which we know, is important to all of you."
2) Gender balance or the "too much male energy" problem. Since hardly any
single women are interested in the Lifestyle until they first have a partner (we get about
100 single men asking about the group for every 10 couples and almost no single women), we
would always have to limit men. How to select? If you feel gender balance is important
this is a serious problem. In some polyamory groups, gender balance is not important and
having lots of extra men is not a problem. However, we believe gender balance is important
and therefore allow single men to participate only if gender balance can be maintained.
We hoped to attract more single women with our interest in intimacy not just sex. I have
brought in about six women, but they are now in other prime relationships and a couple of
them participate as couples.
Some clubs like Sociables in Phoenix, have nights single men can come but most couples
avoid those nights unless they are into exhibitionism and enjoyed be stared at by lots of
horny single men. This is certainly not my interest nor that of most couples. If also
makes a lot of money for the clubs to have single men nights.
We did try a single men's group and had one very good meeting. However, we just didn't
have enough leaders interested in continuing and the numbers were very small compared to
the number of initial inquiries. When most men found out we really didn't have zillions of
women just waiting for them, they lost interest. My interest is primarily couples and
neither Bill nor I have any time nor that much interest to promote or even help someone
else lead a single men's group since we just are too busy with other things.
In some polyamory groups, the gender balance is not as important since they often include
many bisexual men. Bisexual women are common in "swinging" but bisexual men have
always been at a great disadvantage due to HIV concerns, which of course are not necessary
well founded. Many bi men have no interest in anal which is the only significant HIV risk.
But bi men mostly have to remain in the closet in "swinging" but are more
welcomed in polyamory groups.
We are more of a poly group than swing....but we still believe gender balance is
important.
The following is a more extensive collection of
comments from others as well as my own regarding single men in "swinging":
At Liberated Christians out of about 2500 people contacting us often from ads saying we
are for couples and single women only we still get about 200 single men contacting us for
information for every 20 couples to perhaps 1-2 single women. A couple of these women were
dominatrix's looking for slaves! Only one single women currently participates in our
Fellowship Group (out of 46 people who attended last meeting) and she helps as a leader.
The rest are all couples and they clearly do not want single men to offset the gender
balance and who may have a different agenda than long-term loving friendships, couple to
couple. Many women are bisexual so extra women not a problem. Very few men are bi and most
men are much more against male bisexuality, while bisexuality among women is common and
accepted by most all.
It is important for single men to realize swinging is primarily a couples activity. While
a few "select" single men participate, and a few couples seek them, the vast
majority of couples only want couples. There are good reasons for this, especially where
friendship and intimacy is sought, not just recreational sex. The fact is there is a HUGE
oversupply of men compared to the very small demand. Here are some of the reasons why
single men are mostly unwelcome in swinging
One club owner said: "My wife and I have been in the lifestyle for 13 years. We are
on the Board of Directors of one of the largest and oldest swing clubs in the country. Our
club is nonprofit so we don't go out of our way to rip-off single guys (unlike some of the
other clubs I've seen). My personal observation on singles is that they are too pushy...
Most couples in the lifestyle avoid single guys. Very few couples are looking for mmf
threesomes. Clubs that let single guys in in any quantity are just trying to make a quick
buck and eventually chase the couples away. To sum up how most couples feel, is that if
you don't bring a women to the party you shouldn't be attending...Your chances of scoring
as a single guy in a swing club is very slim. And any club that tells you different is
just trying to part you from your money". From Steve Allen on Internet.
Another club owner said in response to my single men problem post:
"Words of ultimate wisdom! We are a swinging couple who runs a swinging couples only
board here in Toronto. We get a lot of single straights looking to join up with a couple.
There are couples interested in the husband watching their wife getting it from a single
male or group but they are far and few between. Most couples who are into swinging are
looking to exchange partners for something new or as an extension of a friendship."
from Debbie Stefen, Ontario's Swinging Couples Choice.
Single women are welcome at most clubs, but are very rare. If women want to be the meat in
the market they can go to a bar. Most women want more intimacy and caring and only come
into swinging once in a stable wonderfully open communicative prime relationship. Also
many more women are bisexual than men, so extra women is not nearly the problem than extra
men.
All major swing conventions are couples only for these reasons. Most NASCA member clubs
are couples only. The Lifestyles convention (grand daddy of all with 3000 people) has been
couples only for many years due to so many complaints when they use to let single men
attend. The vast majority of couples are simply not interested in single men and to
encourage more unneeded males to participate is, in my opinion, a big disservice to the
majority in the Lifestyle.
More public posts about single men:
"Many couples regard single males are "sharks" just after sex. That is not
what many swinging couples want. A single male has a very different agenda and issues than
couples. Many couples have told me of terrible experiences where they bring in a single
male for the women, and he falls in love with her and is devastated when he can't have her
more often. Some single men tend to attach like a octopus out of desperation. Couples want
to share as friends, intimacy with other couples without any need to be jealous since they
are centered in the prime relationship. Many swingers are looking for much more than just
recreational sex, but intimate friendships with other couples."
As an "experienced" couple, we are continually forced to "screen" all
potential contacts because of these asshole single/married-cheating guys that want to horn
in where they aren't wanted.
I'm sure some jerk will follow-up my post with another long-winded reason why they should
be included in our lifestyle - but they just don't seem to get it! We don't care, we
aren't interested, you've missed the whole point and purpose of the alternative lifestyle.
In fact, by single guys constantly trying to convince us that they are worthy of a second
look, they perpetuate their own misery. We've been contacted by guys that couldn't get a
date with a $500 bill taped to their forehead! Listen fellas, leave the
"couples" alone and go about finding an available female to satisfy your sexual
needs and desires and then you are no longer a single! Also, I'm sure that the next post
from some dork will claim that they've had relationships with lots of couples.
AND FROM YET SOMEONE ELSE:
I tend to agree...why is it that the single male is so great to party with, yet when you
read their posts they're looking for "cunts" "pussy" or
whatnot...where do they show any respect for the ladies? Having been involved for 15+ yrs,
the only "single" males we ran across were out for themselves, the hell with
everyone else...
In answer to the question why single women are welcome and not single men a swinging
couple answered:
"The main difference is that less than 5% of couples are looking for single males and
45% couples are looking for single and or bi females. We basis this on observations over
the last 15 years and having operated several clubs in different areas of the country.
Before this was called an alternative lifestyle it was know as wife swapping. That tells
us that this activity was built around couples and not singles. Yes there should be room
for everyone in this lifestyle. Unfortunately many single males have no understanding of
what it is about. The actions of those have given a black eye, so to speak, to all single
males. The truth is most single guys are just looking to get laid and think that a couple
who is into swinging should be an easy mark for them and get offended when they get turned
down by a couple, who is looking for couples or single/bi women. Truth is they wasted
there time by approaching a couple that wasn't' interested just because they thought they
were the exception. That will never be the case, they aren't' going to be anybody's
exception. Many of the single men bring other problems with them, lack social skills, low
self estem. They aren't going to have any more luck with couples than they have in the
str8 world, it just doesn't work that way."
End of quotes.
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