PO Box 55045, Phoenix Az 85078-5045
Promoting Intimacy and Other-Centered Sexuality
COPYRIGHTED 1997 ALL RIGHTS RESERVED - MAY BE REPRINTED OR QUOTED
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Reflections On Carmen's
Mixing the Mild With The Wild
Future suggestions for parties
Wow...some party at Carmen & John's ! I am very positive about the November
party but hope it wasn't too wild for some Liberated Christian couples. I don't
think it was, and we've had some positive feedback from some of our more conservative
couples. Early in the evening, before anything sexual was happening, a woman said:
"I thought you said this party might be more wild than the last one".
About four hours later she said "I never dreamed it would be this
I'd like to explain a few things which seem to be working together nicely, address
couples that may have been a bit overwhelmed, new couples that don't know what to
expect and the differences between our workshops and parties.
History of Liberated Christians Parties
Over the past two years we have had some great host couples doing an absolutely
wonderful job putting on parties. As a new organization we struggled with the format
for parties. Originally our view was to have some structure which might include
the hug circle, a sharing circle, but mostly just socializing and hopefully some
good intimacy, nurturing and good sex would naturally occur. However, some couples
were tired of Dave and Bill's formal structure and just wanted to "party".
Therefore, parties have been simply "parties" without any formal structure
such as those of the workshops. In 1995 we included some ice breaker "games"
(Rick was great leading them) but only a few people were sharing more intimacy or
sex in the more private areas.
We have an identity problem. We don't want to be "just" a traditional
swing club, but hope more people will also enjoy good intimacy and sex together
along with good social friendship and real nurturing. We have wound up being far
too boring for some more interested in "swinging" and too scary for some
with little or no experience.
From "Mild" To "Wild"
This Fall a couple of things nicely came together that transformed parties from
mild to wild. The first positive change seemed to be the introduction of massage
at the party hosted by Janet and xxxx. Some people overcame nudity fears and enjoyed
both good muscle relaxing massage and sensual erotic massage from a variety of people.
But nothing like what happened at the November party. The group room downstairs
did see some action, but only limited and after most people had left. The Intimacy
room at xxxx and Linda's in June was a great idea, but still didn't get as much
use as we might have hoped. Everyone seems to want more intimacy to happen, but
this seems to be very hard to do without some "workshop" type structure.
The November party was very different. The primary reason was that as hosts, Carmen
and John invited some of their "swinging" friends. At other parties and
events we only invite those that have gone through our intro. Our idea was to have
a group of people who get to know each other and are comfortable with each other
developing friendship and intimacy and not just have bodies coming together for
sex as in traditional swing clubs.
Carmen and John are very choosy about who they will invite to their home and seek
the same type of people we do. They don't want drunks, or men that are too aggressive
with women, etc. Having Carmen & John's parties more open has helped introduce
some of our less experienced people to more open sexuality. Carmen and John, as
well as all our past host couples are very supportive of our attempt to introduce
more loving intimacy and more nurturing sexuality to swingers and others. But there
is nothing wrong with just enjoying sex for its own sake either. We didn't announce
the more open policy since we didn't want everyone inviting people. Only Carmen
and John invited those they wanted to come to their home.
I believe it is positive to experience people that are very happy with more open
sexuality. Yet, seeing sex in different forms so openly shared with others is perhaps
shocking to those not used to it. In most cases at the party, it was the women that
were initiating the sex and the men were very obliging but not overly aggressive.
I am concerned that only a few people used condoms. Many of the people having sex
did know each other from other swing clubs. Unless you know your partner well I
encourage condom use. On the other hand, STD's are very rare even among swingers
who seldom use any protection. It should be the decision of those involved and that
For most of the evening there were about three parties going on. The massage room
was very busy. Another social group was just talking in the kitchen area and group
sex was going on in the master bedroom. There was also some sexual fun going on
in the hot tub. Couples that were not participating sexually seemed to have a good
social time and didn't seem upset with the sexual activity.
The Massage Garage Experiences
If you didn't note the garage door opener mechanism overhead, you would have never
guessed you were in a garage! Perfect layout with 2 massage tables (Carmen &
John had just bought one, plus mine) with lots of cushions and floor space around
for people to be intimate or just watch.
The plan was that Carmen was going to do a game that would also include the use
of a massage table. I had held off doing any massages until she did the game. But
a nice women from the "swingers" somehow heard I did good massage and
dragged me (well not quite) into the garage! Well, so much for any games. Many others
followed and the 2nd table was immediately put to good use with women massaging
Rick and then many women being massaged by men.
I did my usual muscle relaxing full body massage and at the end she wanted to be
sure I would give her pussy some attention, which of course I did. But that was
the only "real" or "stroking" massage for the evening. After
that it was almost entirely hand and mouth stimulation of erotic areas. I am NOT
saying this negatively since that is what most women seemed to enjoy and there is
nothing wrong with this; I simply enjoy more intimacy and more stroking than poking.
I also had a couple men earlier in the evening tell me their partners would like
my massage. But I think they wanted more the stroking type and I lost track of them
and never had the opportunity to do any more stroking massages! I hope they will
try again in the future and perhaps I can do more stroking earlier before just sexual
A Very Positive Observation
I really must commend some of the men. From what I observed, few women had orgasms.
But they were very much enjoying the sex. The men were very patient. Some men and
women were very good giving oral sex for very long periods of time. The men were
not impatient to get the women off. The women enjoyed very long periods of sexual
stimulation without orgasm being the main focus. The biggest worry of some of the
women was tying up the massage table so long. I'd love to have feedback from some
of the women, but I was very favorably impressed by the patient men and the orgasm-isn't-essential-to-enjoy
attitude I observed!
On the other hand..there was the woman who after a few minutes on the massage table
couldn't stand all the sexual stimulation and had to get off the table and have
intercourse with 2 men. It is great to see people who can enjoy their sexuality
without any barriers or issues to overcome. Who knows, she may have been very repressed
for many years and is just starting to enjoy her new sexual freedom.
My Intimacy "Thing"
While the men were being sexual I very much enjoyed and had very positive feedback
from most of the women doing my "being more intimate" thing. I really
enjoyed it with one women in particular. While all the men were working her sexually,
I was doing my "thing" and she was holding me very tight and was looking
me in the eyes the whole time. I continue to find that most women do really like
some intimacy while also being devoured sexually. It works well in a group sex situation.
I try and be sure the woman does enjoy it before I totally jump in! I'm not against
sex, no I'm not impotent, but my organ tends to be shy in a group and I often enjoy
being more in a "love" mode than a sex mode when sharing massage. Yes,
I did enjoy intercourse with a woman at the party, but in private, not in the group
To know what my "intimacy thing" is, you would have had to observe me...at
the right time...or come to the massage workshop on Nov. 23. I will talk and demo
(assuming I have a willing woman) many massage ideas. I didn't do any G-spot massage
at the party, except in private later in the evening with very positive results.
I would have perhaps offered to try some G-spot massage on various women, if they
wished, but they seemed to always have someone else taking care of that orifice
in other ways! I only demo G-spot massage at the massage workshop if a woman is
comfortable with my doing it in a group situation.
Concerns & Ideas for Those Not As Comfortable
One woman, braver than some, was an example of my concern, for which I will suggest
a couple solutions. She had experienced my massage twice before and very much enjoyed
it. She had been anxious to have me massage her, waiting for a free table. I briefly
left the massage room since I have this habit of washing my hands between massages
as good hygiene. When I returned she was being "worked on" by four men.
I gave up any thought of doing my normal "stroking" massage on her but
did my "intimacy thing" and we talked while she got all the attention
"below". She was both enjoying the attention but also unprepared for it
and was bothered by "strange" men's poking fingers in her. But she was
willing to have it continue, although she would have preferred being more warmed
up by a regular massage before all the sexual attention. She also mentioned it would
have been nice if they would have introduced themselves before jumping into her
My concern is that there are other women (and men) who would enjoy sensual massage,
but more privately with perhaps just certain people, without just being groped sexually
by anyone. Some people want more sexual massage than is available at the Stroking
Community, but not have their bodies open to any man that wants to "jump in".
That includes me. If any woman is not comfortable if I ever "jump in"
I absolutely want them to tell me so! Since I enjoy massage so much (and my intimacy
thing), I tend to often jump in slowly, and can usually tell by body language if
the woman is comfortable with me. But I can be wrong in my assessment and hope she
will tell me.
IDEAS For Future Parties
The massage tables were a big hit. If we had more tables we could also have some
in a more private room.
Much of the intimacy part of massage can also be done on a bed lying together. If
women want to share intimacy (which does not have to include sex) with someone,
we have always had private bedrooms available at parties. Just because it's a bedroom
and not a massage table doesn't mean you have to include intercourse! We are just
programmed to think that way. For example, I very much enjoy good intimacy naked,
on a bed or floor with a woman and can do much of what can be done on a table...and
more...like full body contact...without it having to be just a prelude to intercourse.
Intercourse is great also, but just because you are on a bed doesn't mean intimacy
can't be shared without intercourse. If a woman wants to share intimacy with a man,
but in private, she should ask him if he would like to go to a private bedroom.
You make any bedroom private by closing the door and others should respect your
privacy. If you want company, keeping the door open is the usual swinging protocol.
If a person wants to experience massage, but only with certain people, he/she should
make those wishes known. In the past, with the Sybian room, everyone has been very
respectful of those who want privacy. If Sally says I want to be massaged by Joe
and Richard everyone should honor her wishes. Maybe we should have a sign or something.
We hope in 1997 we will have enough host couples and those interested in attending
different types of parties to offer different levels of parties. It is our present
plan to continue to restrict parties, other than at Carmen and John's, to only Liberated
Christian couples. Our desire is to have parties where, over time, we have consistency
of attending couples where friendships and more intimacy can be shared as well as
other activities besides those with just a sexual focus. The atmosphere of the party
will be set by the host couple. For example, if a host couple wants to offer a more
formal structure, such as hug circle and/or some structured sharing/discussion or
structured intimacy, such as in the workshops, we would like to try that. Or, perhaps
more like Carmen and John's but just for those involved with Liberated Christians.
We are also open to more "open" parties where anyone can invite others.
But we want to be sure those attending are respectful of our rules and are the type
of couples we want to share with.
For more conservative couples, rest assured the Massage Workshop on Nov. 23 and
the Stan Dale, Sex, Love & Intimacy Workshop on December 7th will NOT be a "wild
party" like we just discussed! The workshops are more formalized sharing of
ideas, with participation with your partner, but not designed to be a party or swing
club type activity. However, after the workshops the bedroom can be used and for
those who do want to share intimately that is always an option.
I hope that in sharing these experiences and ideas it will help some couples who
might be a bit scared by the party experience. No one is ever expected to be sexual
and our number one rule is No, means No. If you ever have a problem, let the host
or Bill or Dave know. The parties, especially where outside swingers can attend,
may help newer people experience many couples who do very much enjoy their open
sexuality. That does not mean you have to participate.
We received lots of response to our intimacy articles in the last newsletter. This
one shares an experience of the type of "family" we would like to perhaps
"One experience was very powerful and almost spiritual. It involved about 6-7
couples who simply met in one of the rooms. The 14, or so, of us became almost one
entity. The entity made sure that everybody had a turn and nobody was left out.
The event took on phases where couples paired and then paired again..., but all
with a caring for everyone else. It was both very erotic and nurturing. The evening
ended with a special event. One gentleman had pleasured many of the ladies throughout
the evening. His penis remained fully erect without coming (for nearly three hours!).
Towards the end of the evening he was "led" back to his wife by the ladies
in the group. This "homebase" provided the setting for him to come. This
special sense of family only happened in one of our visits, but shows that it is
possible without a workshop setting."
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