Phoenix Law Makes SWING CLUBs illegal !

FINAL CITY ACTION DECEMBER 9, 1998
A Sad Day for Adult Rights in Phoenix
Attacks on Your Sexual Freedom Is Spreading Across America!


Robert McGinley founder of the National Association of swing clubs is very supportive and has reprinted the Az Republic news article at http://nasca.com/nasca_news.html

After the article he says:

"If passed, the new rules would deal a death blow to swing clubs in Phoenix. NASCA International has recommended that the Phoenix clubs band together to obtain competent legal representation to fight the Phoenix City Council. Also, NASCA suggests that each club review is operation to determine if certain aspects of their operation should be changed.

Whatever the actions of the swing clubs, Phoenix City Council, “neighborhood leaders,” or the “sex industry,” this city battle is representative of the sex hysteria that has obsessed America.

When, oh when, will we grow up!"

November 30th letter to Dave from a City Of Phoenix E-mail Address:
This is a response from someone at the City of Phoenix who didn't sign a name. I have been sending the Council my reports on all the public meetings (doubt they see or care less about but send them anyway). The sender's address is not the public address of a council member but comes from the City's E-mail. The return address is sphelps@ci.phoenix.az.us If anyone has any source to find out who this is it might be interesting.

"The Mayor is not pushing the Sex Ordinance to come before the full council. The Police Department, working throught the Public Safety Subcommittee is pushing for these changes. I'm certain we will vote, though, to eliminate your sex clubs.

Life. Get one."


Dave replies I hope all our elected officials aren't so crass. Is there any intelligent humans there? So you will go against the overwhelming testimony and views at all the public hearings....you have stated no valid need for any of the proposals. It has been shown there clearly is no heath or safety issue, yet you want it for your moral judgments it appears against any logical reasons. Oh what an attitude. I understand even your city attorney has told you it will never be upheld in the Courts as similar attempts to close swing clubs have been struck down all over the U.S. But you just want to harass owners by passing laws that have no justifiable basis except to impose your morality on others. The huge number of Christian swingers don't want you to impose your warped ideas on them.

Exactly who are you? Why do you send mail without your name and from a City E-mail address but not one that I sent to of the Council?

A reader   responds:
How typical for some jerk at the city to send a rude and unsigned message to you. While I have been anonymous in some of my communications, I have not attacked anyone. It is interesting that the person says the police dept. is the moving force behind these proposals. As far as I know, police are civil servants charged with enforcing laws passed by the people's elected representatives. While they are certainly free, based on their knowledge and experience, to advise those same representatives as to what policies might be more effective, it seems wrong for them to be the driving force behind legislation, especially when the legislation is opposed by major segments of the population. Such activity by police agencies seems more suited to a police state or a banana republic than the United States of America. I have also been thinking of the gentleman at the third meeting who said he was tired of hearing about Constitutional rights. If that were really true, then he wouldn't care if his representatives made their policies in secret and demanded that he comply with them. What he really meant was that he was tired of people that he disagreed with having Constitutional rights, but did not wish to relinquish any of his own rights!

Report on third and FINAL meeting held November 16, 1998 of the City of Phoenix regarding proposed swing club and sex oriented businesses'

Report on Dave of Liberated Christians on KFYI Barry Young Show  Nov 5, 1998

Report on City Council Hearing 2 fo 3 Nov 2 1998

Report From October 28th City Council Hearing Mostly on Swing Clubs

Dave's Presentation Before City Council Oct 28, 1998

Jason's Great Letter to the City

Dave on KTAR Radio BAD HOSTILE Experience 10/26/98

To write or E-mail Council see Phoenix City Council page which also has directions for speaking before the council.

See Dave's Letter to The Az Repulic which supports the new laws.

See Dave's Letter to the Phoenix City Council with copies to the media.

See Response to the City Reply and Editorial in Az Republic of Natl "Family" Foundation Prudes with a national campagn to stop consenting adult sex. 9/21/98
Contents of above:
1)Sept 21st Update: National Family Legal Foundation (NFLF) & City Response to our letters
2) Sample of your letters in reponse to NFLF
3) Sept 23rd
Secondary Effects Opportunity & Updating Phoenix Situation - Discussion with Phoenix Attorney

September 29th City Council Letter about public meetings in the Fall

October Notice of Public Hearings

This message is on at least two Phoenix Commercial Swing Club Sites

Attention! Attention! Attention!

The City Council of Phoenix in an ever increasing effort to control and regulate every aspect of the lives of it’s residents and deny them even the semblance of the freedoms guaranteed under the Constitution of the United States have determined among their narrow-minded selves and in opposition to the public’s viewpoint that social/sex clubs should be prohibited in the city of Phoenix. They intent to vote on this in council in the next week or two but have refused to say when. The proposal has been sent to the City Council by a subcommittee on Ethics and Public Safety composed of—you guessed it—three councilmen—John Nelson, Peggy Blisten, and Dave Siebert. One must ask why the City of Phoenix needs an "Ethics" committee. Obviously they feel that it is their place to dictate our morality to us.

The report by the city attorney was grossly inaccurate, misleading, and incomplete. According to the city attorney, these clubs are houses of prostitution. They alleged that members of these clubs are sleazy people and criminals. It is they who are the criminals. They are stealing our rights to free assembly, our right to self-determination, and our right to make a living.

All of the clubs, particularly the new ones, have complied with all city requirements of zoning, permits, licenses, etc., and were repeatedly told that they were legal. Now they say they aren’t. This is Fraud!

Any one who has been in one or more of the Phoenix social clubs knows that the members are normal people, representative of all socio-economic levels, occupations, and personal preferences. Members also know that the clubs ARE social—members play pool and darts, dance, and visit. They also know that they are consensual. Prostitution, drugs, alcohol, cameras, and weapons are not allowed and safe sex is emphasized. Clubs of this type hurt no one, employ security personnel to protect members anywhere on their premises, and provide safe, pressure-free environments where couples and singles can meet. This is a far better choice that meeting strangers in bars and other unprotected places. In addition, these clubs are all located in industrial areas where residents won’t be disturbed or have our choices inflicted on them.

According to city government insiders, the city council has other targets for restriction, regulation and elimination, including non-profit ones, that they will attack one at a time. If you feel that your organization or business is safe, think again. Now is the time to speak out. If you value your constitutional rights, call, e-mail, or write to all of the city council members listed below and voice you opinion. You might remind them that they are our employees, not our bosses, and that they can be replaced. Inform them that they are not above the law, or better than other citizens because they have a different morality than others do.

Call the city council now and tell them to stay the hell out of your rights. Call them every day as they are thick headed and it will take a while for it to sink in…Email: the city council over and over.
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Dave says: I agree we need to try and sit down and talk sense with Phoenix council

I've been around the swing club scene many years, speaking at many conventions etc. and when this "problem" has come up in other cities, it usually gets tossed out by the Courts on First Amendment grounds. But its a whole lot cheaper and easier to try and stop the law before goes into effect instead of fighting it in the courts.

I wonder however if the current Phx City Council really is interested in any dialog or facts since they have long wanted to stamp out any adult activities they don't like.

I represented a few hundred massage therapists via petitions etc. I presented before the Council a few years ago fighting the new massage laws. It seemed pointless and of course the new laws just made the problems worse.

I wonder if anyone gets to sit down and talk to council members rather than just give short speeches allowed at meetings without much dialog of chance to discuss.

I have to be somewhat less public on this issue since I have clients that might get upset with some of my views. That is why attacking adult freedoms is easier since while folks may support more freedoms they are reluctant to be too public about it in a society so obsessed with sexual denial in public but obviously doing something else in private


Dave's further notes as of 9/12/98

The city of Phoenix has been trying to close down Steve at Impressions for a long time. Apparently he violates the zoning code being too close to residential property. He also owns an escort agency which the city doesn't seem to like.

It is another club owners view that since the city is having such a hard time closing "Steve" down, they need to change the law to close everyone down. Especially after viewing web pages of another clubs and of course wanting to stamp out all the immoral sex!

In the opinion of one club owner, she says even the Republican party, the District Attorney's office and many others think the city council's actions are to be laughed at as being so anti-sex and so overboard. We have already seen some Az Republic columnists make fun of "those dangerous titty bar dancers so dangerous to our society" vs drug dealers and real crime.  HOWEVER, the Editorial Board of the AZ Republic APPROVES of the new law.  See my letter to the Board.

BTW, the city council is NOT up for election this year. So we can't argue it's just political. But the council does seem big on the "family values" line over rights as consenting adults.

The new Arizona law requiring the closing of adult businesses at 1AM has been enjoined by a court. Swing clubs think they are also protected by the injunction.

Four of the commercial swing clubs have retained an lawyer, to fight any ordinance. Once the law is passed they will go the Courts on First Amendment grounds and attempt to get an injunction. But what we really needed is massive citizen action to protest to the city council before the law is passed! It is not on the current Wed Sept 16th agenda. But it could come up at any Wed council meeting for passage. Citizens should be able to speak out by using the procedure shown on our Phoenix City Council web page.

One idea was to make Grand Avenue an "Entertainment Strip" and have all the adult businesses concentrated in one area.  On the other hand with a million population so spread out that may not be the best answer either.

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E-MAIL: dave@davephx.com