Liberated Christians
PO Box 55045, Phoenix AZ 85078-5045

Promoting Intimacy and Other-Centered Sexuality



COPYRIGHTED 1998 ALL RIGHTS RESERVED - MAY BE REPRINTED OR QUOTED FROM ONLY IF CREDIT IS GIVEN LIBERATED CHRISTIANS, MAILING ADDRESS IS SHOWN AND WE ARE SENT A COPY OF PUBLICATION.

March 1997 (Spring 97) Special Report:

Christian Poly Communities
& Ideas For New Local Groups

AN INVITATION TO HELP FORM LOCAL GROUPS IN THE U.S.
Special Note To Internet Subscribers Since we don't know your location
(Updated November 1998)
With our subscription list topping 3,000, in 1997,  we believed it was practical to encourage local groups to form.  As discussed in another article in this newsletter, Liberated Christians encourages other groups to form.  We have lots of couples in Florida (especially in Orlando area) on our interested list.  But we need leadership couples to do the local organizing and all the local work!  There was for awhile a group in Southern California (see older article below). Bill spent the Summer of 1998 in the Pennsylvania area and has tried to help people start a group in that area, but without success.  The key problem is all the work it takes getting people together led by a strong, dynamic leadership couple.

If you think you would be interested in participating in a group in your area, would you please contact us and let us know the CITY and STATE of your residence, as well as tell us more about yourselves and your interests relative to a group. In particular we would like to know if you would be interested in being involved in the planning stages of such a group and if you have any ideas on where to meet (homes the best).

Local enthusiasm and practical participation are essential for any new groups to be successful. A lot of hard work will have to be done. We need people willing to help in practical ways as well as to participate in the total process of creating new groups. Will you join us and some of your "neighbors" in this exciting effort? Please contact Bill by e-mail at: bill@libchrist.com
or dave@davephx.com

Original Article:
New Liberated Christian Groups On East and West Coasts
by BILL PARIS
We have some exciting news. We are working on plans to start Liberated Christians fellowship groups outside of Arizona. One of these will be in Southern California, the other somewhere on the East Coast, probably located in the corridor stretching from New York to Washington, DC.

Since the beginning of Liberated Christians we have frequently been asked: "Is there a group like yours in our area?" When we answer "Not so far as we know," the next question is: "Could you start a group in our area?" or "How could we start a group in our area?"

It is with these questions in mind that we begin printing personal ads from people around the country who are looking for like-minded others with whom to get acquainted and possibly form the nucleus of new groups.

What's Happened Recently
For some time a number of couples from Southern California have subscribed to our newsletter. Some of those have spoken to us about their desire to find like-minded Christians in their area. Something similar has recently happened on the East Coast.

We have begun discussions with some of these folks and have discovered that some are enthusiastic about helping plan and facilitate initial gatherings in their areas. At this point Bill is working with these people to draw up goals for these groups and set dates and places for the first gatherings. It is our hope that these gatherings can take place by the fall of 1997.

Much of our excitement about the possibility of these groups has come recently from Christians who consider themselves to be theologically "conservative" or seriously committed to a personal Christian faith. We are especially searching for folks who describe their Christian commitment in the above ways, although these groups will not be closed to any who wish to explore the field of multiple partner intimacy.

Many seriously committed Christians have come forward recently expressing the desire and need to be in fellowship with others in poly lifestyles who share their spiritual perspectives. We believe that such groups could fill an enormous need in the lives of those who have struggled so hard to reconcile their intimate desires with their faith and who have had to do it on their own, without the support and encouragement of others of similar faith.

The March 1997 newsletter also contained two major articles which are elsewhere on this site:

"Standing Up And Walking Tall": A Manifesto of Self-Esteem for Christian Polys

SEXUAL FREEDOM, POLYAMORY AND CHRISTIANITY: THE CASE FOR COMPATIBILITY

The last "regular" newsletter was Fall 1996:


FALL 1996 Newsletter
Snail mail subscriptions which look better than ASCII formatting are available for $20/year. Or for $30 you receive comprehensive package of back reports and newsletters as well as a one year snailmail subscription. This internet version is free. We also hope to have a web site in the near future but don't currently have one.

SPECIAL NOTE TO SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA COUPLES AND SINGLE WOMEN: There is some interest in forming a Fellowship Group in the Los Angeles area. We need host couples and other leadership couples. If you are interested in either hosting, leading or attending a group in the Los Angeles area, please E-mail me at dave@davephx.com (or reply to this message). We have no way of knowing where most of our E-mail subscribers are located. If we try to start a Los Angeles group, we will mail a notice to our So California snail mail regular subscribers as well as E-mail those that reply indicating an interest. For details on what the Fellowship Group offers in Phoenix, see the very end of this newsletter.

INDEX
Note when viewed on the web, all 136k+ of this document many have to be loaded before hyperlinks from index will work!
Phoenix Fellowship Group "Loving More" Reflections on Last Intro Group
Room of Love Discussion / Nancy from Anakosha Comments
Emotional & Physical Intimacy
Your Letters & E-mail
So. California Lifestyle Friendly Therapist
On The Humorous Side
Basics of Male Sexual Stimulation
Being Christians & Active in Lifestyle
Pain & G Spot Experiences
Pleasure & G Spot Experiences
The Problem of Weight & Sexual Shame
Dealing With Jealousy
Smoke Filled Clubs
Catholics and Condoms Again
Presbyterians Fidelity & Chastity
Men Over 60 Not Over Sex
Have We Forgotten How to Make Love?
All About Clothespins
Spectator Magazine Fights Censorship
Sybian News

Liberated Christians Around the World
Resources We Recommend
Personal Ads


Since we went to a quarterly publication schedule we are getting many E-mails for those wanting to be sure they haven't missed an issue since we used to publish more often. It's nice to be missed, but we have also been very busy with the Phoenix Group, answering many E-mails and letters, still trying to work on a web site, and earn a "real" living to support us and offset some of the high costs of what we consider the Liberated Christian ministry. We now have almost 2500 E-mail subscribers to our newsletter in addition to snail mail subscribers. Since the Internet E-mail version is free and the $20/yr snail mail basically just covers our costs we welcome and appreciate any donations (especially from Internet E-mail subscribers) to help cover our costs of reaching others and sharing ideas that have been so helpful to many. While we are a "nonprofit" we have decided not to file as a charitable organization since the paperwork is immense.


Fellowship Group News - "Loving More" Reflections on Last Intro Group
I thought I'd share an open letter just sent to the 37 people that attended the latest Liberated Christians intro meeting with its emphasis on "Loving More." Obviously we would never identify any sources of the comments since we respect privacy. But we quote anonymously in our newsletter, etc., where comments might help others.

September 18, 1996

Dear Intro Friends,

I thought I'd share with you some reflections and observations gleaned from the Intro we experienced together last Saturday evening.

---A little girl's story: A woman shared a story written by her 10-year-old about falling in love with five young men, not being able to choose one among them, so deciding that she should marry them all!

---Touching without shame: Another woman shared her unusual experience of being inadvertently seen naked in her back yard by a male neighbor, who said he had never seen his wife completely naked. He asked if he could touch her breasts, which she gladly allowed. It was a tender and respectful moment, but one, she said, whose energy could not be carried forward because of the wife.

---A love observed: I was privileged to notice throughout the evening the warm and tender looks a partner frequently gave his wife, especially when he saw her nod her head in understanding at something Dave or I said about love and open relationships, especially when she shared how he had helped her open up about her sexuality.

---A couple's disappointment and hope: One couple expressed the discouragement of attending a former church and feeling that the people were harsh and critical with one another, focusing on rules and demands, rather than love. They had never expected to find the openness among Christians, especially regarding sexuality, that they found in this group.

---A conversation overheard: Among the buzz of many conversations after the session, a small scrap of one particularly caught my attention. A woman was telling several others how Jesus came to teach us to love one another.

What themes seem to run through all of these examples and were expressed by others during our evening together?

I think, first, there is the theme of LOVE--how we ought to love one another as God loves us; how we should be set free to love MORE AND MORE and, certainly, more than one person in deeply intimate ways.

It is also the theme of love DENIED. In terms of our sexuality in particular, culture and religion create almost impenetrable barriers to the fulfillment of our sexual potential in loving others. There is the barrier of FEAR: we are afraid to express that love to those to whom we are attracted--the possibility of rejection overwhelms us because the other person may not be able to accept our breaking of the rules. There is the barrier of the GOD of traditional religion, whom we have IMAGINED wishes to restrict our loving, rather than expand it.

There is the theme of TRUST. I saw trust DISPLAYED in the eyes of the woman whose husband loved her enough to gently urge her to open up to more love. I also sensed trust LONGED FOR in the expressions of so many who wanted to love more and wanted to find lovers whom they could trust with their deepest thoughts and feelings.

What is the point of all that I have said? Yes, Dave and I spoke of all these things in our presentation, but it was YOUR hearts that responded in the snapshots I have shared. It is you whose hearts hold both the potential and the longing for LOVING MORE.

This is what we hope we can say to you with confidence and commitment:

Welcome to a place where love already alive can grow.

Welcome to a place where new loves can be born.

Sincerely, for Liberated Christians,
Bill

When we shared this on the Loving More E-mail list we received this response:
"Wow...Thank you for sharing your Liberated Christians meeting summary with the lovelist. You have put a whole new twist on my view of the Christian religion. It seemed that the religion was created just to tell us that sex is bad. All of my life I have rejected their rules and judgementalism. I did understand that I was really opposed to how those around me interpreted the bible more than what the bible actually said, but your positive loving view of Christianity makes it more than palatable for this left wing crusader. Now I can enjoy the Christmas seasons with all the gusto I have within me and not fear that I am not worthy of being a part of their church because of my sexuality applaud you for taking such a unique posture. It would be fun to listed to some of your conversations with the right wing fundamental Christians... Unfortunately the whole family values movement is a movement of isolationism. People are more and more fearful of each other. I believe that communities are the answer ...not just family"

Note: We agree with all these good comments.


From October Intimacy Workshop "Room of Love" Goal

Including Ideas of Nancy of Anakosha / The Sanctuary In Florida

In the Intimacy Workshop on October 5, 1996, we shared with a great group some ideas and practical examples of loving intimacy. Here is a part of what Dave shared, followed by some comments on group discussion on physical techniques, vs emotional intimacy.

We know that learning to share intimacy, especially in a group setting, is difficult and we really are trying to brave new territory since we don't see any model to follow. Some that are active with Stan Dale's workshops and who attend their ongoing monthly gatherings tell me that these tend to be more social, talking events than a continuation of the so called "room of love" that is created at the Workshops. It seems we need structured activities to be intimate, at least in a group.

I've been at swing conventions in orgy rooms with lots of sex going on but little of what I perceive as real intimacy. Our goal is to try and someday create, for those interested, a room of love as a group, as well as encouraging you to include more intimacy in your own private relationships. Many of you may have no interest in any group setting, but for those who do and already have great intimacy skills, hopefully you will enjoy sharing, helping and supporting others who want to have more intimacy in their relationships.

There has been the beginning of this at some of the parties and I hope this will continue. Also, just in the last two weeks I've had two great threesome experiences with people from the latest intro that indicate we do have some people interested in loving intimacy in outside relationships.

The only person I've met in the lifestyle that really seems to have tried to make this happen is Nancy, founder of Club Sensitivity Seminars, which for 12 years offered seminars on swinging in Tampa before her husband died and a local preacher tried to get their group closed. Nancy and I share many ideas on intimacy, but often have the same frustrations. We've been exchanging letters for a few years and finally met at a Florida swing convention last spring where I did our Liberated Christians presentation, and we were both on a sex and spirituality panel. Nancy and her new husband Doug have founded Anakosha and the Sanctuary and host weekly swing parties again.

Nancy jokingly once told me she did such a great job training swingers, but has failed in teaching love and intimacy. I'd like to share Nancy's ideas from her Reunion Newsletter, since she has so many more years of experience than I and as a woman expresses what many women feel. She says:

"To encourage sincerity and love would do a world of good for a lot of people. Sex without love, or at least some form of affection, is hard to handle. Hugging just a little bit longer, and stroking with just a little more meaning behind it, as though we really cared for them as people, not just as sex objects, would greatly enhance the depth of pleasure and prolong the feeling of arousal. We all need some emotional healing time.

Awesome things happen sexually when loving behavior is integrated into the sex act, both at home and in the lifestyle. Yes, I know. A lot of people are afraid of it, especially men. That's why it's been cut out of lifestyle parties. Men feel awkward with it but the behavior can be learned. They are learning. I know men who have changed dramatically under their wives' tutelage. And it's time.

Now that we've learned how to have sex with the many others, it is time to go to the next level and learn how to love the many others.

When SSG was at its zenith, we saw love being experimented with during the parties between people. Granted, not a whole lot, but it was beginning. It was working.

We understand that most men don't want to do it that way, and since the lifestyle is overly male in its approach we have goal oriented parties with sex as the focus, not love or affection or extended foreplay. If women were in charge, parties would be different. (I can hear loud sounds of protest over that one!) But Lifestyle parties really do overlook the need for emotional comfort and the fact that most people would prefer, if they had their 'druthers, to "grow" into someone's space rather than be rushed, pushed or pulled into it.

I have talked with a number of men whose wives have quit attending parties. The husband blames menopause and thinks she is losing interest in sex. But in my discussions with some of these women I find that they are not losing interest in sex as much as they are increasing their need for affection and not getting it at the parties. They want to be held and loved more before sex is thrust upon them. They want to feel as if they are wanted and appreciated as a person and not a sex object. They want to be physically stroked, massaged, kissed, embraced and caressed for longer periods of time in extended foreplay. A lady recently told Doug & me that she was coming away from parties feeling "empty," that immediately upon arrival men were groping.

Well, not everybody wants love in their swing life and that's okay. Not all women do, either, and that's all right. You don't have to go with the flow if you don't want to. It's your choice."

For about a year now Nancy has been back with swing parties at a new place called The Sanctuary, trying to integrate love and intimacy with swinging. Just this past week I received a long letter from Nancy...here are some of her interesting comments.

"I'm starting off each party with an invitation to join me in a massage in the mediation-turned-group room. This has been working quite well" She then jokes about too much social conversation going on saying, "I really do believe people talk too much. They would have a lot more fun if they stopped talking and started stroking." (I very much relate to that since I tend to sometimes communicate love for a person better with my hands than my mouth).

Back to Nancy...She continues, "The feminine issue of needing more stroking is top most in my mind. While men have the same problems that women have, women, I've found, can break through their negative programming easier than men and become highly sensual with prolonged touching, soothing stroking, kissing and affection, plus labia massage followed by yoni (G-spot) massage. The technique is teachable. But with men, its harder. I've not had the same luck with men because they resist so much. They want to stay in control. I believe impotency could be helped a great deal if only men would give up being the controller. I would like to see a good workshop showing men how to love unconditionally. The Lifestyle is full of men who just think about themselves and forget that they are supposed to give pleasure too. Men are not programmed to give pleasure, except for a few. I want to be fair and say there are those men out there who are different, but to tell the truth, I don't see them hardly at all. So it is time for erotic skill training sessions.

We are going to add one more party a month for the 20's and 30's age group. The older people are very difficult to teach new ways to, so we've concluded that we can't change them. But the younger couples are more sensitive and more trainable. They are the future."

While Nancy may be hard on men, many women also tell me the same thing and some are amazed at what is possible, when they share with me intimately. Women keep telling me they so much want more good loving touch intimacy, not JUST great physical sex and orgasms. But many men don't understand this desire of many women.

So what is this magic that so many women want but only a few men seem to know how to give? Its almost too simple to explain. Its simply loving, nurturing touch. Its simply the right kind of touch and knowing how to touch and where to touch in loving intimate ways. It is not about groping sexual touch. Foreplay can be full of great intimate touch instead of "Ready - Brace." While having sex, it's different ways of holding her or positions that are much more intimate than just the typical "spread- her-legs-and-get-it-in-and thrust" type of sex. I enjoy a legs-together position that most women tell me they really enjoy but often have never done before. Even in the hug circle in the Phoenix groups, despite all our direction about intimacy, not sexual groping, in the past women have told us that some men just insist on being too sexual. They have not learned that sexual touch is much different than intimate touch. Many men find enjoyment when they learn intimacy, but others will never enjoy anything but sexual touch. And some women don't want intimacy either. Some men and women need to break barriers to intimacy, but when they do, they often they find their sexuality much more fulfilling.

Emotional And Physical Intimacy
In the Intimacy meeting we also had a very good discussion about emotional intimacy. While much of what we talked about was physical "techniques," most people need more emotional intimacy which includes communications and getting to know and trust the person. This is why traditional swinging is not emotionally fulfilling to many couples.

We can enjoy the "techniques" of physical intimacy but we also want to be nurtured and feel close emotional intimacy. This is harder and takes longer to develop for most people. Yet good touch and physical intimacy can also be shared and enjoyed for its own sake. We don't have to eliminate either type of intimacy but seek to integrate both in our relationships, whether they are primary, secondary or casual relationships. Sometimes we emphasize physical intimacy in the group but we don't mean to exclude the importance of emotional intimacy.

As one wise woman wrote reflecting on the intimacy discussion at the meeting:

"...physical intimacy can enhance a chance encounter or be a building block for a deeper relationship. By getting beyond physical inhibitions you open the door for emotional levels at a later point. Physical inhibitions are the easiest to work on and really should be the first step not the last. If the group never gets to the next step, OK. It could take awhile and that is not a bad thing."

She continues to express excellent ideas on intimacy by saying: "Intimacy is really MUCH more (than physical); it's a connection to the other person and cannot be done immediately. You can like the person, enjoy their presence, but without full intimacy you cannot participate in the full experience.

"The psyche is what is 'turning' you on. All the physical elements may exist but without a desire there isn't going to be anything more than just rubbing parts. Example, when I am with someone I ALWAYS look in their eyes. But in the absence of words all that is happening is two people trying to figure out what the other is thinking. If he doesn't' care what I am thinking he will initiate more physical activity, if he does care he will talk to me; make some statement. I will say something like 'I am really happy to be here' or 'I am excited about sharing with you because I think you are nice (or like your ideas or something about them)'. At that point I have made an attempt at emotional intimacy. There is more meaning attached to my next physical touch not an empty gesture with guesses behind it. (It goes further than that...)

"Good sex is OK, but I think life is built on touching inside each other not just on the outside. I could walk into your room of love and have sex with anyone in the room. Even the worst lover can be coaxed and directed into a pleasurable experience. But there would be people in the room that I would prefer to be with, because of the next level. The emotional level. He would respect me more, care about me, start connecting with me on the inside. That's where the next step lies. (There is nothing wrong with sex, enjoying it, getting beyond inhibitions. But there is also more than that)."


Your Letters & E-mail
Dave's note: Hopefully we are not going overboard printing so many replies we receive. But we believe the experiences and responses of real people are very interesting and we can all learn and grow by these real life experiences in addition to theory from articles we write or reprint. We continue to welcome these types of letters and E-mail. To protect privacy no identifying personal information or last names will ever be revealed unless permission is given.

In Response to our Internet Post About Christian Intimacy and Biblical Sexual Issues:


What a blessing you are..

I was on the net tonight...wrestling as Jacob did with the angel.. Torn between guilt and what I think should be.. I opened the newsgroup and found you.. Thank you...thank you...thank you


"Wicked Week Of Evangelical Minister" Thank you so much for your newsletter and other items you sent me. I especially enjoyed the "Wicked Week of Evangelical Pastor". I too am an ordained minister in a very conservative denomination. I have watched many fellow pastors be dismissed for holding the views expressed in your newsletter. I think that is a shame, but its reality... I Would you please forward my E-mail address to the pastor who went on the wicked week. I really would like to talk to a colleague of like mind. Needless to say, there is no one else I can talk to about sexuality, that is except my wife.


Thank you for publishing that wonderful short article from the "evangelical pastor" from the mid-south regarding their experiences at Hedonism II and with a more open sensual and sexual orientation. How refreshing and encouraging to learn of other thoughtful genuine believers who love God and have discovered the truth and beauty and joy of more open sensual relationships. We often marvel at what the Lord has allowed us to experience and his wonderful affirmation of this discovery, in so many ways.

Like that pastor, we are quite visible in our community and families, and our discoveries and experiences would not be understood or well received by most others we care for and fellowship with...We're leaving this Saturday for our second stay at Hed II.

Dave's Note: We get so many letters from ministers thanking us for exposing the biblical truths about sexuality since they have to remain in the closet or risk their jobs. Tradition has totally bent what the original scriptures said, and those with theological backgrounds often understand this much more so than the typical "lay" person sitting in the pew who just assumes the preacher is preaching correct teachings. Regarding sexuality issues they are actually preaching tradition, which is very different from what the scriptures actually meant in the culture in which they were written.


Bill's Childhood Sexuality Article Continues to Receive Many Letters:
Subject: Childhood Sexuality Followup to Earlier

Hello. I read your article posted on usenet and couldn't agree more. I am now 19, male. When I was growing up, my parents never discussed anything with me. Its wrong, they'd say, and change the subject. Now, having had only two girlfriends and still a virgin, I wonder, is it my fault? Is it my fault that I am 19 and have never really had a chance to express my sexuality other than to myself? I feel that growing up I basically have had to teach myself from right and "wrong", "moral and immoral", and have come to the conclusion to say screw all the religious foney baloneys. I agree 100% that they fear sex because its the one thing that drives them crazy. Perfect example, Jimmy Swaggert. He was against pornographic magazines, saying that these "devil" tools drive people to rape and think dirty thoughts. The truth is that that's what those magazines made HIM think and feel, and the whole time he's there picking up hookers at 7-eleven's. I just hope now that since I think I've finally have developed my "sexual conscious" I can find someone who will help me further explore my feelings. It sucks having missed such a crucial part of my life, and that's why I must ask, is it my fault?...


Can No Longer Receive Our Newsletter Out Of Fear

The data you sent me was good and I printed it out. The problem is my wife called from work and said she had talked to someone at work about the net and wanted me to teach her how to use it. So, I can't have you sending any E-mail newsletters to me. If she saw what you sent me it would be divorce time! Really... I am involved in a very sexless marriage due to years of molestation when she was a child. Otherwise a great lady! So, please drop me from your list.


Liked our Articles on the Internet

I've read some of your articles posted on the net. The information provided is by far the most valuable, mature and open minded information I've seen regarding human sexuality.


Snuggle Therapy

I periodically post our article "Getting In Touch With Intimacy" on the Internet. Here is an interested E-mail from a male seeking such a group in his city in Florida:

"I have been able to snuggle with a few people, all of whom live very far away, and found it deeply healing, and very, VERY much want to find other people to non-sexually snuggle with. I come from a very abusive, neglectful home, and this helps a lot...maybe an 'inner child' group, I don't know."

Dave's comments: Maybe someday we can have such a group in Phoenix or in other cities. With all the emphasis on sex, too often we pass up the opportunity for just good high touch intimacy, such as snuggling, without it having to lead to sex.


Additional Comments From "Wicked For A Week" Pastor discussing teaching biblical classes says:

...had about six young couples ask me all kinds of questions after class. When I made the statement that I could not see a biblical prohibition against non monogamous marriages they commended me for my biblical honestly and really seem to appreciate the fact that I was not trying to bring current cultural morality into spirituality. Seems that age group of Christians, the 20s to early 30s crowd, are much more open to the truth and an honest look at the Scriptures than the older generation. Guess they don't call them generation X for no reason!


Premature Ejaculation Solution

I found a product that helps men that suffer from Premature Ejaculation. I have struggled with this problem for many years. Last year I saw a piece on TV in which guys were using prozac to control their PE. I contacted a local urologist and he prescribed some similar drug. It didn't work for me all that well. Just made me real mellow. I have always thought that my problem was that I was just real sensitive. Well I found a product on the internet called "Longevity." When it arrived I tried it and it worked. However, I also recognized the smell and the shape of the bottle. What it actually is, is Maximum Strength Anbesol which you can buy at your local drug store for about 1/3 of what they charge you!!! But it was worth it. Ambesol works great as long as you let the alcohol evaporate off your penis before making any contact with her vagina. I know this is probably not a "real solution" to many men's problems with PE but it sure made our sex life a lot better. Now, she usually reaches her climax before I do.


Sybian

In response to our periodic Internet posting of our long Sybian article: Hi Dave, Well that was the most enlightening piece of reading I ever came across! Thanks for the info!!!

Another Sybian reply from initial post that doesn't tell exactly what Sybian is...but invites people to request more information:

>Good God man!

>Spill the beans!

>Hows it work?!?!

>Do I change my name to "Sybian" and then the babes just start following me around?

>Do I also need to go to Tampa and hang around the right supermarkets?

I then reply with our extensive Sybian report.


North Carolina Christian Couple Would Like To Network With Others says:

"What excites us most and gives us the most optimism is the hope of networking with and eventually meeting others we consider our "peer group," i.e. those who have high moral and ethical standards, and those who accept Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior, combined with a non-shamed (but not prideful) embracing of a physically non-monogamous Life-style. If there is a local group (within 100 miles of the Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill area), please write us a short note back giving us a point of contact. If there isn't a local group, we would like to seek out any Liberated Christian affiliated group anywhere in North Carolina, South Carolina, or Virginia."

They go on and express an interest in forming a Liberated Christian affiliate if there is none. We very much encourage just this, but so far no groups have actually formed outside of Phoenix. We encourage people in their area to contact them. They have given permission to publish their names, and are the same Cathy and Kent whose article "Being Christians and Active Lifestyle Participants is printed later in this newsletter.

Here is their personal ad:

MWC, she 44 and bi, he 39 and straight, spiritually and emotionally and sexually nurturing and caring people seek compatible couples and singles as friends and lovers. We love without limits the only boundaries being no male bisexuality, "real" pain or videos. Prefer to meet those within 100 miles of us. Cathy & Kent, POB 36070, Raleigh NC 27606-6070.


Texas Preacher's Kid & Wife Struggling With Lifestyle Issues Seek Others

Dave, thanks so much for the newsletter and your and others writings! It has helped me immensely in my struggle with "Traditional Christianity" and the hard line hell fire and damnation upbringing of my youth.

I am a recovering Southern Baptist PK, (Preachers Kid), who struggled with the exclusiveness of monogamy from the first time that the girl I had a crush on in the sixth grade said, "I can't be your girlfriend because I am Doyle's girlfriend". My honest reaction was why can't you be girl friend to both of us.

Then there was all of the scripture of the Old Testament with men having multiple wives and sexual variety in their lives, and the double standard of that time that really bothered me.

When my first wife and I got into swinging in the early seventies, we both suffered much guilt and dropped out of church because we couldn't be "swingers" and Christians too! What a crock of shit.

We made some really close friends in the swinging community. In fact four couples developed our relationship into one very close to a group marriage.

When the pressures of family and friends "to get back in church," and guilt they heaped upon us for not being in church and doing the Lords work, became too much we went back to church and turned our backs on our poly family.

The pressures to stay away from those we loved, the guilt of constantly being drawn towards these couples we had such deep feeling for and the guilt we felt when we had sex with them and even exchanged hugs, tore us and our marriage apart.

Now after a second failed marriage, [wife] and I, (both twice before married), are making a wonderful life together, one based on openness and truth and honesty, and open to polyfidelity and the concepts of responsible non-monogamy.

[Wife] was realized this since meeting me, and has started to change her mind about some of the teachings of her past (Catholic). She suddenly wants to meet Liberated Christians in our area (Austin, Dallas or Houston, Texas) and explore the possibility of opening our hearts to others.

Dave's comments: If interested in this couple's E-mail address contact Liberated Christians. We have connected them with John Hillman (the pastor who wrote the Hedonism article a few issues ago).


From Panama

The information you have sent us has been so refreshing and welcome that we have already started to translate it into Spanish so that we might share it with like-minded close friends. Yes, in your next bulletin please mention we are here in Panama City, Panama, for any passerby or close-by friends. You have our authorization to print our postal address (Virgil & Mary, 6-4019 El Dorado, Panama City, Panama). We will be honored to translate any of the articles into Spanish. My fiancee and I are Catholics and congratulate you on our courage. We are confident this will be a better world, like God intended it in the first place, if we all do what we feel is right and good to ourselves and for others. No matter what we have been taught. Good luck and thanks for all good you are bringing to many people's lives.


No, You Are Not Alone in Your Feelings Of Sexuality As God's Gift

Public post on internet alt.christnet.nudism, Subject: liberated Christians, 13Aug 1996:
I have recently discovered the liberated Christian movement. What a joy for my wife and I to realize we are not alone in believing that God gave us sexuality as a means of expressing love, experiencing joy and pleasure, and not as a way to torture us with guilt and repression!

The liberated Christian movement has reexamined the scriptures in the original languages and cultural context and provides insight into how the faith was hijacked by sex-phobic hypocrites...here's the good news: responsible, open non-monogamy, premarital sex, nudity, etc. are NOT SINFUL. Love is the only law. Let's reclaim the faith!!

We have also exchanged E-mail with both spouses of this couple who are sending our material to anyone interested. They are also interested in communications with other couples and she says:

"We are so glad you guys are doing this work, as it has been very difficult dealing with our lifestyle in a small (Canadian) town. We will be very pleased to have correspondence from any of your members. We are still working on how to manage our "playing" with that of family, children, friends, etc. and always having to think about what people will think or say about us. (Husband) says I am expecting the "villagers with pitchforks and torches" on our front lawn, like some Frankenstein movie, but even he agrees that we are in a kind of fishbowl, living in such a small community.

You talked about women being less than enthusiastic participants in the extramarital fun, I just want to say that I have been, if anything, the instigator in our relationship, encouraging rather than avoiding new experiences. Of course, I enjoy the extra woman in our bed as much as (husband) does, and I find these threesomes to be especially satisfying because (husband) is a cuddler, and we seem to attract cuddly gals!

It's really as much about sharing the incredible warmth and closeness we enjoy together than it is about sex, and we do seem to have a good effect of people's lives who we become intimate with. They seem to have better luck at love as the result!

We certainly feel more comfortable in our relationship with God since studying your material, and since we stopped attending church, ironically. We still worry about how other Christian friends would react if they really knew us, but I guess that should really be their concern, not ours. (Husband) worries that the CMA (Christian Motorcycle Association) would ask him to turn in his colours...

Thanks again.... (Husband) says he sees other people talking about these ideas on the 'net all the time, and that freer Christians thought will spread more rapidly because of the 'net.

Note: They are especially interested in corresponding with any other Christian Motorcycle Assn members that embrace the Liberated Christians philosophy. They need to be somewhat discrete, but contact us for their E-mail address if you wish to contact them.

Update note from above couple October 12, 1996:

"hi Dave... just wanted to write you a quick note to let you know how we have been doing.

Your incredible ministry continues to have a very positive effect in our lives... thank you again!!! we have been sharing your ideas and material with Christian and non-Christian friends alike, gradually becoming more courageous in talking to people about our beliefs... and the response has been very positive.

One recent breakthrough was a long discussion we had with the president of our local Christian Motorcycle Association, with whom we really wanted to establish some openness, not wanting to be involved in the group without them, or at least the leadership really understanding our perspective on the faith... he was very positive and supportive... what a great blessing!!!!

Thanks SO MUCH for introducing us to John and Nancy from California... we have been carrying on a delightful (and quite spicy!!) correspondence with them... they seem to be enjoying the contact as well, although they are not as isolated from other sex-positive people as we are.

We have become much freer and more secure in our lifestyle choices since we began this journey...and I have been cruising the newsgroups looking for people asking the same questions I was asking, then offering them some answers... always in the form of my own opinions, backed up with an offer to provide insightful material (our intro material) if they request it.

I really feel that this has become a ministry for us, both on the net and in our personal contact with people... already we have seen people whose discomfort over sexual issues was keeping them from seeking God suddenly realize that He loves them and wants them to be happy and free.

Thanks again for your dedication to this ministry... oh.. almost forgot.. did you happen to see the article in last months Cosmopolitan? They have a feature called "on my mind" which is a kind of freelance opinion feature, and there was a great article called "would Christ have joined the Jesus coalition?" ... this was really excellent and proved that a new, freer and more loving Christianity is rapidly expanding into the mainstream.. the work you and other are doing is going to change the faith... I can feel it... God bless you


Sex No Longer Dirty For A Christian Young Women From Holland
A public Internet Post:

When everyone reacted so positively on my post about orgasms as religious experiences, I've been doing some serious thinking and praying. Many Christians agree that in Christianity sex has been considered dirty and sinful, but that this is wrong. Sometimes the view of sexuality as something sinful was based on mistranslations of the Scriptures (I won't go into that, but who's interested in more information can E-mail me personally) and sometimes the old-fashioned view of Augustine (a doctor of the church) is still preached: sex is only good for procreation.

I was taught to believe that sex was something disgusting, but very early in life I discovered my body, just like every girl does. I became increasingly aware of my own sexuality and of male bodies. My puritan mother wanted nothing to do with sex, so I had to hide my own feelings, being able only to explore my body in the privacy of the bathroom or in bed. But looking back on my childhood experiences I now realize they were not only my first sexual experiences, but religious, too. I was taught to feel guilty of masturbation, but I had never felt closer to God than in those private moments right after my orgasm. I said childish prayers right before and after masturbating.

My attitude changed when I became engaged to a boy from church. I was only eighteen years old (I'm now twenty-four years of age) and completely inexperienced. In my home-country, Hungary, early engagement is very common and we were expected to marry after our graduation from secondary school. Ferenc, my fiance, was a nice looking boy from a respectable family and his parents had succeeded in setting up a prospering business despite communism. Everything looked great, but I was terrified by his sexual behaviour: after our engagement he told me it was okay if we had sex, but I said I wanted to wait. He practically forced himself upon me, but I managed to get away. After that he did not want to have intercourse, but he forced me to make him come with the help of my hand and later my mouth. I experienced nothing at all and I guessed that sexuality was only for men, not women. His erect cock frightened and disgusted me. I felt dirty.

Now I realize this was not because I thought it was sinful or anything like that, but because he showed no interest in my pleasure. When touching me, he touched me in a rough way. I broke up with him after he slapped me in the face when I did not let him come in my mouth. For a year the entire male sex was disgusting for me. I paid no attention to boys at all, lived like a nun in every respect. I worked in a hotel in Amsterdam for a while and in the bus back to Budapest I met a fine young man. When I got to know him I noticed how eager he was to please me. He touched me with a tender, loving touch, and my pleasure was double pleasure for him. He did not rush me into having sex, although I 'gave myself to him' almost immediately, long before marriage was even discussed. In my mind I married him the moment I laid eyes on him, no priest, no rabbi, just him and me. Before making love, we both prayed in our own mother-tongues, while touching each other. While he ran his fingers through my hair, he praised the Lord for creating me, and that, however childish it may sound, made me cry. He was a gift from God for me, but he thought I was a gift from God for him. It was both, in our experience. For the first time since my very early childhood I felt no guilt for being excited, for feeling the desire to be touched, held and entered. I thought I would never experience a thing like that. I thought I would never touch an erect cock with my hands, let alone my lips, after Ferenc, but when I touched the boy whom I considered to be my husband already, I completely forgot all about my bad experiences. Taking a penis in my mouth was not something unspeakably disgusting to me anymore, but a blessing, since he had made me feel how it is when lips touch my vagina. Before he came he asked permission to come in my mouth and I was so moved, since the last time I had done this I had been slapped in the face for not letting the man come in my mouth. When I felt him come, I felt a Divine Presence in my life, I felt he had given me a gift.

I talked with him about God and His Plan for all of us and he showed me there was so much pleasure in sex that it must be part, and an important part too, of God's Plan. After that, my excitement has known no bounds and I've even masturbated in front of him, something I thought I would never do.

After this I have been praying often for better and deeper experiences and God has provided. We are not only spiritually, but legally married now, too. I felt a long time that I had to share this and I know many Christians will be offended by my language, but I will ignore or try to ignore the flames and hope there is a girl out there, reading this, wondering why she has never experienced God in her sexuality and why she feels so guilty. Anyone who wants to is free to E-mail me personally again <A.Zwagerman@inter.NL.net> and I will pray for everyone, even the people who send flames, for there is a wonderful thing inside all of us which can bring us so much closer to God. He wants to have a relationship with all of you, also through our bodies.

Love, Alicia

Bill's Response to above:
"Your story is indeed a remarkable and beautiful one to read and reveals so clearly how God has given us the gift of our sexuality and wishes us to enjoy it fully and to honor him as we do." In addition Bill has shared more with Alicia, who enthusiastically gave us permission to publish her letter, including her E-mail address.


Another Christian Who Thought They Were Alone
You are a Godsend to me...literally! My wife and I are believers...We definitely cannot fit in with conventional Christian churches, because we are too free..she is bi and we both love amorous adventures... We don't believe it is a sin in our lifestyle, or that God meant for us to suppress the exuberant, joyful and mutually satisfying sexuality He gave us...please give us more information. We need to be validated and know we are not alone in this view of God and religion. Thanks.


Honestly Helped Another Marriage After Reading Our Newsletter

After 10 years and four children, a job layoff and my husband going back to school, we have lost a lot of intimacy...if we ever really had any. My husband has had a "closet" interest in swinging for long time, which I had to find out the hard way. He didn't feel he could be open with me about it due a lot I suppose to my insecurities at the time, so he kept the magazines hid and the ad he clipped from the paper in his wallet for a long time before I found it looking for something else one day. Needless to say I was very hurt and felt very inadequate. We separated a short time later...got back together...and things have been on a roller coaster ride ever since. Me practically begging for attention and time away from the kids with him. I am at the point where I am thinking about an affair to just try and get the affection and intimacy I am lacking. That goes against what I have been taught about marriage in the Christian sense, but feel I will go nuts and make life hell for all of us if I or someone doesn't do something soon.

After I read your newsletter, I felt a sense of peace and HOPE I haven't felt in a long time. I was actually able to talk rationally to him and we had the first effective conversation I feel we have had in a long time, due mainly to talking about swinging. I spoke of the fears I still have to a point about how, me, being referred to in some circles as a Big Beautiful Woman would be attractive enough to someone else, what if we weren't satisfied with just each other anymore, what if I was still too jealous to handle it. I told him what I liked about your newsletter is that you also promote intimacy and caring relationships as well as swinging. He admitted himself for once that he was lacking in knowing how to give intimacy.

Dave's Note: This is a very common situation. We hear all the time about the lack of honest communications. We've had ongoing correspondence with this couple and am happy to report they have had some very good experiences exploring the Lifestyle with another couple. Recently she says, "It has made a difference in our relationship with each other! I'm even getting confident enough to be considering asking a woman friend (husband) use to work with if she might be interested in exploring with us. (Husband) said he would like to be with her so I'm trying to find the right words to tell and ask her at the same time! I'm even getting excited at the prospect if she consents!" Quite a difference from before she found our newsletter and started honest communications which has greatly improved their overall relationships as well as their sexual fulfillment.


Another Natural Sex Report

In prior newsletters we did extensive reporting on our Natural Sex for Men and Women survey of readers that tried the product. Here is an update from a previous report we published:

A few months ago I shared my personal results with Natural Sex. At that time I had tried taking two a day, and than various "overdoses" over the course of a month or so with no really noticeable effect. I continued taking at least one a day however, sometimes two, and I can say that now after about four months I can report definite "results".

Dave's Note: For some men it seems to take much longer than for others to get the effect of more free testosterone in the system.



So California "Lifestyle Friendly" Therapist Available
A Lifestyle friendly therapist has written Liberated Christians, offering to write articles as well as being available to those individuals seeking assistance in their relationships, but who do not want to have to deal with the hasty conclusion, by a therapist, that their "alternative" lifestyle is the reason for all their problems. Due to his community activities, he prefers to be somewhat discrete. But if you are interested in a professional therapist, contact Liberated Christians and we will give you his phone number. He has extensive experience as a licensed Marriage, Family and Child Counselor and has a private practice in Southern California. In addition, he is a university professor of psychology and human development and a leader in a traditional Christian Church. One of his many interests is encouraging formation of healthy groups as opposed to just any groups. We look forward to his sharing some ideas with us in the future. Perhaps, we can have him as a guest speaker sometime for our Phoenix Fellowship Group.

On the Humorous Side
But Often With Deeper Meaning

Why Fall, Why Not Stand In Love?
"I wonder why it's called 'falling in love' instead of 'standing in love'? Something about control and balance? Is the task, then, to move from falling to standing? i.e. conscious creation as suggested?" Source: Brett Hill (Loving More) on love-list@lovemore.com

The Age of Consent If A Virgin?
The age of consent in Mississippi, is 18, but "If the female is over 12, the statute applies only to virgins." The interesting question is whose word are they going to take whether the girl was a virgin? Maybe they'll demand the girl show them the first bloody sheet so they can carbon date it or something.....

Man's Interest In G-Spot & Clitoris
If a man is interested in your G-spot to the exclusion of your clitoris, try being interested in his prostate to the exclusion of his penis.

1000 Erect Wooden Penises For Sale
Regina, Canada (Reuter) - Saskatchewan is trying to sell 1,000 erect wooden penises meant for use in sex education classes, the Canadian Press reported.

The province's educational department removed the penises, officially called "supplementary demonstrators", from the grade nine health curriculum after teachers complained they were inappropriate.

The wooden organs were intended to be used to teach 13- and 14- year olds the proper way to use a condom.

The department is hoping to return the offending teaching aids, worth about $2,200, to the supplier or sell them to health or other educational agencies. So far 46 have been sold.

Life... It's sexually transmitted, and always fatal.

Dave, Please sign me up (for newsletter) and send me any back issues you can easily get your mouse on!

Few Homosexual Problems compared to heterosexual
"The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and three hundred sixty-two admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that they need more supervision." - Lynne Lavner

God put me on earth to accomplish a certain number of things. Right now I am so far behind, I will never die.

The Masturbating Monkey
Once I was in Houston, TX, and visited the zoo. There was this one monkey who had quite a crowd around his cage. He had this little act he would practice over and over to the amusement of the crowd. He would masturbate a couple of times, then stop and look around at the crowd with this guilty look on his face, then spank his hand, then look around to make sure everybody was watching, then repeat the same thing all over again. I'm not kidding, it really happened. Some Zoo worker probably taught him that little trick. Sure hope he wasn't imitating somebody in the crowd.

India's Roadside Romeos To Be Caged
Policewomen in parts of India will now wear sexy clothes and indulge in amorous acts and gestures to attract Eve teasers. Once in the trap of these policewomen decoys, the roadside Romeos will be paraded around the city in mobile cages, the Times of India newspaper reported.

In an effort to curb the growing menace of Eve teasing, the police have positioned several mobile cages on the main roads. The words "Romeo Cages" are boldly painted on the cages pulled by big trucks hired by the police as a psychological deterrent. In most Indian cities, women are verbally and physically harassed by youngsters. The situation is the worst in the buses and trains.

Thailand Leader In Penis Reattachments
BANGKOK, July 17 (Reuter) - Thailand is becoming a world leader in a particular area of microsurgery thanks to some fiery members of its female population. Reattaching the penises of wayward men, sliced off by their jealous wives, is becoming a particular Thai skill in the operating theatre, Surasak Maungsombat, a senior surgeon at Bangkok's Siriraj Hospital, told Reuters. ``It's due to the number of cases we get. I've heard of one in Taiwan, one case in Australia, one in Japan in 1976. Our team here has had 30 cases since 1978,'' Surasak said. All but one of his 30 patients had their organs cut off by enraged wives, he said. ``It seems that some Thai women just can't tolerate extra- marital affairs and do this, which is different from women elsewhere who would just divorce their unfaithful husbands,'' he said. Ideally the patient and his severed penis should be brought to the operating theatre within six hours of it being cut off but, if properly frozen, a severed penis could still be re-attached a day after the event. Surasak said the key to success was re-attaching the main blood vessels which ensure the organ functions properly. One of his happy patients claimed to have fathered two children after his penis was re-attached, he said. In 1994 in the United States manicurist Lorena Bobbit severed her husband's organ in retaliation for his alleged sexual assaults on her. The penis was re-attached.


Basics of Male Sexual Stimulation - As Nature intended - Arousal & Erection
Arousal is controlled by the brain and based on genetics and other factors different stimulus arouses different people. We have no choice in what is arousing to us.

In a male, if he sees or reads something that excites him sexually, the messages are transmitted to the portion of the brain that controls sexual response. Initially this does not create an erection but an electrical impulse is transmitted to the tiny cowpers glands, located along the sides of the urethra. These glands produce a few drops of the clear slippery fluid that forms at the tip of the penis. The function of this fluid is to act as a lubricant for sexual intercourse. It's pH level is high (perhaps to decrease the acidity of the vagina increasing likelihood of sperm survival), and its very slippery (to help enter the vagina).

At this early stage or arousal the man suddenly feels very good, psychologically as the brain is flooded with natural chemicals (endorphins) that are very enjoyable and make the man want to continue to sexual arousal. The reason pornography sells well and strip dancers are so enjoyed by men is because it often elicits this response of physiological well-being. In gay men, the arousal mechanism works the same, but the object of sexual attraction is another man.

Erection occurs after a period or arousal. In young men it may be often very soon after initial arousal and without any need for manual stimulation of the penis. As men age, arousal can continue indefinitely without erection which may need additional manual help. Erection occurs when the spongy tissues of the penis are engorged with blood. There is one large primary artery bringing blood into the penis, and several smaller veins that drain blood out of the penis. When not sexually stimulated there is a balance of blood flow in and out and the penis is flaccid. However, when stimulated, the artery becomes wide open, the heart rate and blood pressure increase and more blood is pumped into the penis. At the same time, valves in the veins controlling the outflow are squeezed shut so the penis enlarges. As men age, sludge builds up in the artery and blood inflow slows. Smoking makes this worse and alcohol decreases the ability of the nervous system to close off the valves in the veins. Keeping physically fit is just as beneficial to ones sexual heath as it is for good heart, lungs and other body organs.

Learning how to lengthen the arousal and erection period while delaying orgasm is an important part of maximizing sexual pleasure. As the erection proceeds, the physical sensations become increasingly more and more exciting, and the psychological pressure to ejaculate becomes more and more intense. The ideal is to keep the stimulation just below the level required to ejaculate while learning to deal with the increasing psychological pressure to ejaculate. Like driving a racing car closer and closer to the wall at ever higher speeds, the psychological pleasure becomes more and more intense, the longer the arousal can be maintained without ejaculation, but the greater the enjoyment for the man. Furthermore, the longer ejaculation can be delayed, the more pleasure can be shared with the woman, who usually requires a much longer period to become fully aroused. A woman can also remain sexually stimulated and enjoy sexual pleasure far longer than the man and often can have multiple orgasms without the refractory period that most men require after ejaculation.

Frequent ejaculation is needed for healthy sexual function. In young men ejaculation typically occurs at least once a day either by having sex or masturbation. As we age, frequency becomes less but varies greatly. If you are not properly using your sexual organs nature provides a last resort - wet dreams. This is the body's natural way of keeping healthy if you don't exercise your sex organs as nature intended. Lack of frequent ejaculation can lead to prostate blockage and other problems. Our sexual organs are designed for use and enjoyment, not to be considered shameful or to produce guilt when we express our natural sexual responses.

While this discussion involves male sexuality, for women the mechanicsare slightly different but the healthy benefits and good feelings are similar. We have discussed female sexuality in detail in other articles, including G-spot orgasms etc.

Some of the above information is from a great article "Understanding Male Sexuality" which is found on the web whose address I have lost!


Being Christians and Active Lifestyle Participants
by Cathy & Kent

Though it's an apparent if not glaring contradiction to many of our friends and acquaintances both in the lifestyle and outside of it, we genuinely and sincerely consider ourselves large "C" Christians. This is despite our active involvement in the swinging lifestyle.

In fact, swinging activities, in our mind, bring us much closer to who and what we consider our God to be. The fact that we both at an early age accepted Jesus Christ as our personal Lord and Savior did not mean we accepted other peoples' concept of what the Holy Trinity was, nor did we, nor do we, accept other self-labeled Christians' prejudices, personal hatreds and overbearing dislikes against other human beings simply because of class, race or sexual orientation and so forth, especially under the guise of religious differences. To us, to be a Christian is to love and accept all people for whom and what they are and as they are. Salvation, which can only come from divine love, must be precipitated by a unilateral acceptance of one's self for one's self, i.e. you must forgive yourself and accept yourself for who you truly are. This must occur before the vessel of your soul is ready to accept love and forgiveness.

Swinging to us is an expression of that love we feel for everyone. It is merely a physical expression of an existing emotional attachment or bond. There's no question of "adultery" in our minds since we feel that sin is rooted in betrayal, betrayal of one's God, one's society, one's family or one's mate. As long as there's no betrayal, there can be no sin. Love is expressed by truth. If something is rooted in truth it must be good. Betrayal, the root of all sin, is always an expression of non-truth and lies. The hurt of adultery does not come from the manifestation of love and joy as portrayed by the physical act of making love with someone else's mate, but rather from the betrayal of telling lies to one's mate in order to engage in adulterous behavior. As long as their is mutual agreement, knowledge, disclosure and constant communication in consensual non-monagamous activities, there is no betrayal of trust and therefore no sin.

Our personal relationship and marriage is based on unconditional love, acceptance and truth in all things. It is faith and commitment to our God and each other. We usually don't mention our faith but we feel a need to let the lifestyle community know that there are couples heavily involved in this lifestyle who are Christians. We and they are without self-contradiction or self-delusion because swinging is an expression of mutual faith and love.


Some Women Experience PAIN With G spot Stimulation

From a public post on alt.sex.wizards:

I am very involved in support group activity with two groups trying to meet the very profound needs of people with a painful syndrome called Interstitial Cystitis and it's "sister" Vulvodynia (an elegant Greek word for vulvar pain).

Both conditions have a rather full spectrum of symptoms but both also are very often manifested by something called "urethral syndrome". It is a "waste basket" diagnosis in some medical textbooks and far too often women have been told they are in pain there mostly because they are essentially neurotic or have something like Munchausen's Syndrome. FINALLY, a paper was published this last May '96 in the Journal of Western Medicine suggesting that the female Urethral Syndrome is really a case of your garden variety prostatitis for women. The paraurethral glands that surround the urethra are positioned just posterior and on both sides of the urethra and the first symptomatic clue the authors (Dr. Ruben Gittes -- a BIG name in urologic research, and Dr. Robert M. Nakemure) a health provider should twick to is pain on the anterior wall of the vagina. BTW, these glands are known or certainly broadly suspected to "ejaculate" upon orgasm and function as mild lubricators for the urethra at all other times. They can be measured for PSA just like those fairly new tests conducted on men to evaluate for cancer. In time, if these glands stay infected for a long time by as yet undetermined bugs (culturing is apparently difficult), they can get clogged up and chronically inflamed causing much pain in the whole pudendal area.

On the other hand, in a healthy woman, they in all likelihood are part of the pleasurable response similarly noted by men in the region of their own prostates -- hence the "G" spot. It's there, it exists and yes, talk to your partner and see if it works for her. If she has pain there, by all means she should get to a physician and have this other thing evaluated. Be mindful that she/he might not be familiar with it and fall back on the old "neurotic" diagnosis.

Another Woman Describes

PLEASURE From Ejaculation
From a discussion on Society for Human Sexuality mailing list on Female Ejaculation:

For me, the orgasms that I ejaculate with are always more intense, and almost an altered state. And as seems to be the case with (other women) , it is also true for me that it takes a long-time, but for me it usually takes several orgasms to build up to it and it is always (to date anyway) associated with a g-spot orgasm. Or I should say a series of them, or even coming to the peak several times first and then coming, and then by about the third (?) time actually coming it will be this amazingly wonderful orgasm.

Another woman said:

One women was an "occasional ejaculator". She's the best reason I have to believe that the ejaculate is not simply urine. The times when she would noticeably ejaculate were after long periods of heightened arousal without orgasm. Most of the time she would cum quickly and frequently, but once in a while we would both delight in having me torment her orally, digitally and sometimes with fisting as well. If she could hold off for long enough (45 minutes or more) she would have an incredibly intense orgasm accompanied by ejaculation. The fluid issued was watery, but thicker than urine and had very little similarity in smell and taste to urine (shrugs).


The Mixed Problem of Overweight & Sexual Shame
One of the most common concerns we get from couples contacting us about our Phoenix Fellowship Group is women who are concerned about being overweight or in other ways not having the perfect body. In our group, we are just normal people, mostly middle aged and of all body types and shapes. All are welcome and its often those that are the most concerned at first that find the love and acceptance of the lifestyle very liberating. But you have to take the first step and accept yourself. Yes, losing weight may also be good for you and we do encourage it, but not to the extent it might damage your health otherwise. There are many overweight people who are much more healthy at their weight than if they tried a diet that often results in failure. On the other hand, avoiding fat, reasonable reducing calories and working out can help many people both physically and emotionally. A typical letter we get from women says, "I am overweight and losing about 2 lbs a week. I have found that when I feel loved, I lose better or easier. I have been inhibited by shame because of Christian beliefs in the past. I want to get beyond the shame."


Two Different Ways Of Dealing With Jealousy
From E-mail list (lovelist@www.lovemore.com)
A woman says:
I don't consider myself a very jealous person, but I REALLY can't say how I'd feel to know that my husband was in love with another women, even if I knew he was still in love with me. And I can't say that doesn't scare me too.

Another woman replies:

I have a great system for dealing with jealousy. I don't feel it. I truly put the other persons desires first in my heart and if I see them happy, in any situation that brings them joy... I am happy. I do not perceive myself as clutching on to them so I do not feel insecure about losing them. My posture is one of offerings and I feel joy in their acceptance.

A third woman replies:

I'm happy for you, but I can't turn anger and fear into joy, so that method of "dealing" with jealousy doesn't work for me. I deal with jealousy by talking about it in detail with my partner whenever it arises.


Many People Can't Enjoy Smoke Filled Clubs
At Liberated Christians all or events are nonsmoking. People who need to smoke can go outside at breaks, etc. I have a sign in my living room that says "I don't mind if you smoke here...But please don't exhale!" Since I hardly know anyone who still smokes and its not been a problem at our meetings, I forget it can be an issue in other clubs as the following E-mail notes:

Last weekend my husband and I attended our first "social" at a local swing club. We were encouraged to attend the afternoon get acquainted session as well as the new couples orientation prior to the social.

Went for the get acquainted session and found that the majority of couples in attendance smoked. Both my husband and I are avid non-smokers. There were two air cleaners in the room and so we hoped it wouldn't get too nasty. Our hopes were not realized.

We took a 45 minute break before the orientation (held in the same area) to get a breath of fresh air.

I barely made it through the orientation because of the smoke and was completely unable to attend the social because of a raging headache. My husband went to it for an hour or so. He reported back that the air was practically blue with smoke.

We really do not think we can tolerate this on any kind of regular basis. Have others run into this problem? And, if so, how have they handled it?

The people we met were very nice and it was enjoyable to converse with them, but both my husband and I agree that the smoke-filled atmosphere will be a definite deterrent to us.

Are there such things as smoke-free swing clubs? How do you suggest we handle this? - From Gasping in the Heartland

Dave's comments: Any suggestions from readers, other than wearing an oxygen mask that would get in the way of oral sex!


Those No Condom Catholics Again
Nairobi, Kenya (AP) -- Kenya's top Roman Catholic church official burned condoms and safe sex literature Saturday (31 August 1996) in a ceremony organized by a group opposed to contraception and sex education. About 250 people watched as Cardinal Maurice Otunga and two gynecologists prayed and sang before setting fire to several boxes of condoms and 100 copies of pamphlets promoting safe sex. The pamphlets encouraged condom use to fight the spread of HIV, the virus that causes AIDS.

Dave's comments: It seems incomprehensible that responsible people would take this approach to AIDS in Africa. But Catholic dogma holds that the use of contraception is immoral. But as Russell said (Society for Human Sexuality mailing list [shs@u.washington.edu] Sept. 2, 1996): "Lets face it. The Catholic white male clergy who set dogmatic rules such as 'the use of contraception is forbidden' basically lead cushy, luxurious lives, and they haven't exactly benefited from the sort of well-rounded education which might help them understand that there are 5 billion people on the planet, and that many of them are living in misery due to (overpopulation). The Catholic Church DOES, in fact, gain political and financial power by banning contraception, as offspring of parents of one religion tend to follow that religion, and banning contraception for Catholics means that Catholics will have more offspring. Fortunately, although I grew up Catholic, I'm now a Pagan, and its no longer my duty to defend excrement like this."

Bill's comments: In some African countries, including Uganda which I have visited, Protestant clergy are actively involved in promoting HIV protection, including the use of condoms.


And Those Presbyterians For "Fidelity and Chastity"
Source: The Presbyterian Layman Sept/Oct 1996

The Right Time, The Right Way, The Right Spirit was the theme of "A Gathering of Presbyterians" held September 16-17 near Chicago. Almost 500 Presbyterians came to the gathering which was to communicate to ministers and elders and help them promote the new "fidelity and chastity" amendment passed by the General Assembly which requires the approval of a majority of the Presbyteries before becoming part of the "Book of Order".

The amendment reads: "Those who are called to office in the church are to lead a life in obedience to Scripture and in conformity to the historic confessional standards of the church. Among these standards is the requirement to live either in fidelity within the covenant of marriage of a man and a woman, or chastity in singleness. Persons refusing to repent of any self-acknowledged practice which the confessions call sin shall not be ordained and/or installed as deacons, elders, or ministers of the Word and Sacrament."

The article continues, "In a seminar to help participants develop strategies for passing the amendment in their presbyteries it was interesting that at least two presbyteries are specifically forbidding the use of Scripture when the amendment is debated on the floor. The rationale being given is that it is a polity matter." (matters of Church government but not specifically doctrinal issues).

Some additional comments by Bill: As a sometime Presbyterian I was interested to see what the "historic confessional standards of the church" referred to in this amendment say about fidelity and chastity. Persons unfamiliar with confessional churches should bear in mind that for people in such churches who feel that they take both the Bible and confessions seriously, a reference to the confessions INCLUDES the "Scripture Proofs" which are given to support any statement of the confession. Thus, if the confessions teach that chastity and fidelity are scriptural matters, this ranks the matter higher than one of church polity, i.e. simply a matter of practical church government or policy.

Having checked the Westminster Confession and the Larger Catechism, it seems to me that those in this debate who hold that these issues are only matters of church polity are incorrect--SO FAR AS THESE DOCTRINAL STANDARDS ARE CONCERNED. Interestingly the Confession does not directly PROHIBIT adultery and fornication in its section on marriage, referring to them only as grounds for divorce. The Catechism, on the other hand, lists adultery and fornication (along with a laundry list of other sexually-related vices) as prohibited in the Seventh Commandment. The scriptural support given ranges all the way through the Old and New Testaments. This approach reflects a view of biblical theology which understands all "moral" teaching of the Bible as deriving from and consistent with the Ten Commandments.

Why do I bother with all this commentary? Simply to say that while in many ways I respect the confessions (written hundreds of years ago) as products of sincere men who were trying their best to interpret the Bible correctly, yet in many cases their methodology was flawed. These flaws have tended to preserve in stone erroneous interpretations of scripture for following generations.

For example, we at Liberated Christians hold that the Old Testament law, including the Ten Commandments, was fulfilled in the life of Jesus and that those who follow him are to follow the Law of Love which incorporates the essence of obedience to all that God wills for man. Unfortunately, those who slavishly follow the confessions actually find themselves following and promoting minute legalisms which become no less burdensome than the laws of the Pharisees which Jesus condemned.

As for the matter of "chastity and fidelity," I personally hold that the seventh commandment speaks only of ADULTERY (fidelity), not of FORNICATION (chastity), which was an entirely different matter in Old Testament times. In addition, we hold that the Old Testament view of adultery was not fundamentally a problem of HAVING SEXUAL INTERCOURSE, but a matter of STEALING A MAN'S PROPERTY. Thus, in modern polyamory or swinging, the CONSENSUAL SHARING of one's primary partner does not constitute adultery and is not sinful.

This issue illustrates, among other things, the problem of hanging on to ancient biblical interpretations without seriously considering the cultural content in which they were originally given..


Brazil Survey: Men Over 60 Are Not Over Sex
Rio De Janeiro (Reuter, 5 Aug 1996) - Nearly twice as many Brazilian men over age 60 are sexually active than women in the same age group, according to a survey of sexual practices by a Rio psychologist. Arnaldo Risman interviewed 128 retirees attending Rio's Open University of the "Third Age" over two years and found that 73 percent of the men and 38 percent of women said they still had an active sex life after they had turned 60. Around 74 percent of the entire group said they masturbated regularly, according to the survey published in this weeks Istoe magazine. Sexologist Ana Cristina Barbosa commented in the article that "women think that sexuality is going to end with menstruation. Sexual desire never grows old. Certainly an erection is not the same (at that age) and a woman may take more time to become sexually aroused, but it is nothing that a good cuddle can't sort out." According to the survey, hairy chests were what did the trick for 82.5 percent of the women polled, although 68.5 percent also found silver hair exciting, while 63.3 percent got a thrill from a well-kept beard. Only 67.8 percent were turned on by a large penis and 54.1 percent by a broad chest, the survey said.


Have We Forgotten How To Make Love?
Man and woman have forgotten how to make physical love. This is the greatest tragedy of all time, for it is the cause of much of the unhappiness in relationships. Woman's basic unhappiness is because man can no longer reach her physically.

For many couples lovemaking today is a compromise, the acceptance of the best that can be hoped for or done in the circumstances. Most women's experience of lovemaking contains disappointment. Most men's experience consists of excitement at the prospect of ejaculation.

Often more frustration is created than love, and often frustration isolates, and lovemaking gradually pushes the partners apart. They get sexually tired of each other and the magic vanishes. Lovemaking becomes habitual, a duty, or an emotional release.

Since time began, woman has been manipulated and encouraged to feel that the finest expression of her love is to please her man sexually. The truth is the other way around. The finest expression of love is for man to delight her sexually....

The man who has developed sexual expertise still does not know how to make this divine love. Heightened sensations and orgasms are gratifying, but they are not the love that woman craves. The woman he makes love to, he satisfies like a good meal; but soon she hungers again and eventually despises her appetite or herself because she knows she is not being loved. For woman, the fulfillment of her love is to take into her everything he can give, while in return offering up every bit of herself in sweet, complete surrender to love.

The saints tell us to love everyone. Did a saint ever tell you how to make love, which is the origin of all love on Earth? Let's be honest. We would all like to love everyone. But could we please just start with our mate?...

You start to love by making love, which is what you and everyone else on Earth wants to do most anyway. For man and woman to make love beautifully requires each to introduce a fundamental change. After you have learned to make true physical love in this entirely new way, you will then discover that you have found how to love your fellow man, how to love your enemies, how to love God, and how to love yourself....

To bring love into your sexual life, you are going to need a lot of new energy. That energy starts with honesty. Living it or putting it into practice is, of course, what really counts. And that's hard. Nevertheless, if you have the courage, the self honesty, and want your freedom - your love - you can make it happen.

These are ideas and excerpts from a 15,000 word document, which includes practical suggestions for changing the way man and woman are Making Love. To order the complete 48-page booklet entitled Making Love, send cash, check, or money order made out to PEP for $5, (outside the U.S., send US $8) postage and handling included, to: PEP 6339 E. Greenway Suites 102-103 Scottsdale, AZ 85254 They welcome any comments you might have as well. E-mail to: lovea@doitnow.com.

Dave's Note: I thought some of the ideas in the summary were very good but have omitted others that I didn't totally agree with. The full publication may be of interest to some, but I don't have it and any specific details beyond what we reported above do not necessarily represent the views of Liberated Christians, its founders or Fellowship Group members.


More Than You Might Have Wanted To Know About Clothespins
Collected by an anonymous writer from various newsgroup, several publications, and a few of his own invention. Examples provided are for females, but the concepts are not truly gender-specific. A recent simple device for directly measuring clamping force of clothespins and other spring clamps is described at the end of this posting. No doubt others will add their own favorites, a future publication of '101 Things to Do With Clothespins' would be an amusing project. As always, I have done what I might to suggest safety, proceed with caring.

Wood versus plastic:

Wooden clothespins are a bit kinder and have less tendency to abrade, thus I would suggest starting with them. Plastic clothespins tend to have much smaller ribbed gripping surfaces, and a 'feel' much stronger than the equivalent wooden ones. Extremely small plastic clothespins are very nasty indeed, and many may be used in the same area for greater intensity.

Wooden clothespins are available in several qualities, with the older, thicker ones being a bit better IMHO, and the thin ones more likely to splinter or have sharp edges. As one may purchase 50 of these for perhaps $4 American, these rank among least expensive of toys, and among the most versatile. Almost anything one may do with fingertip squeezing may be done with clothespins, and several things that cannot be accomplished with one's fingers may easily be done with these tiny household beauties. Of course, this does leave your hands free for other activities....

Clamping Tightness "too hard!", "too soft!", "just right!":

Unmodified, most wooden clothespins of quality grip with between 4 and 6 pounds of pressure over an area of 3/16 X 1/2 inches. This is too much for some, and not enough for others. The grip is best increased by wrapping the clamping end with elastic bands, and decreased in several ways. The simplest is by weakening the springs by clamping something that requires the clothespin to be open to its limit for several days. This will reduce the clamping pressure by several pounds, dependent on the initial strength of the spring, the width of the opening, and the length of time one allows for stretching. Carefully pulling the jaws wider than they would normally travel will stretch the spring quickly, but this is harder to control. Wrapping elastic bands around the legs of the clothespin will resist the tension of the spring and weaken the clamping force without permanently weakening the spring.

If you are willing to spend a bit more time, drill straight through both legs of the clothespin legs about one third from the end and thread a bolt through the holes, tightening a wing nut on the bolt will allow for wonderfully precise changes in clamping pressure, since the bolt-nut combination adjustably limits the travel of the legs. It is often best to drill a larger hole or even a slot in one leg for ease of adjustment. This requires perhaps 2 minutes per clothespin and is well worth the time, as the pressure may be slowly increased as her ability to enjoy the sensation improves. Weights may be hung off of the clothespin as well by hooks or cords attached to such holes and hardware.

Standard Techniques - suggestions for beginning and advancing:

One classical place to begin with clothespins is the nipple, but there are many possible variations to this alone. The first grip recommended most often is with the clothespin pointing straight onto the nipple, not from the side, gripping the base of the nipple, not the tip, and perhaps a bit of areola as well. This does not have the same sort of 'bite' as grasping the nipple alone may, and often does wonderful things for sensitivity without causing severe pain. It is best to start with a rather weak clamping pressure and work upwards, and if you are just beginning, try not to leave the pins on for too long (start with what she can endure, and eventually work up to perhaps twenty minutes. I prefer not to leave them on longer than this). The longer the clamping time, the more fierce the sensation caused by removing the pressure. The increased sensitivity afterwards may last from minutes to many hours, depending on the person, the clamping force and time; and several things might be done in this period to use that sensitivity to advantage (beating with the proverbial 'wet noodle' or even a featherduster is quite effective). Ice applied immediately after removing the clothespin may reduce the length and severity of the sensation if that is desired.

You might try putting the clothespin on sideways, with the nipple centered in the hole in the clamping area. If you do this far enough back on the nipple base or areola, the tip of a large nipple will remain exposed for other things, such as ice, nibbling, or smaller clips and clamps.

You might try clamping the nipple only, or work gradually out from the areola as her ability to enjoy more increases. Tapping or lightly brushing the tips of attached clothespins is effective, and a light vibrator may also be used if taped to the legs of the clothespin.

One simple device works nicely for both nipples at once on all but the smallest female breasts. Take two clothespins and glue the outsides of the legs together with a slight overlap. Then use the clamping ends to grasp both nipples from the sides at once. The pull will vary depending on breast size, but some will be present, thus causing her to jiggle her breasts gently can be fun, and of course, this is often just the thing to add to tickling. Size differences may require an additional short piece of wood to link the pair together, length best found by experiment.

Several people have mentioned pulling on clothespins or clips with strings, chains or cords. The nipple itself may also be encircled by a thin cord or thread, I have used unwaxed dental floss to good effect. Avoid slipknots for the obvious reason that they might tighten too far in use.

Pulling off a clothespin is more painful than squeezing the legs to remove it gently, and is the basis for several devices below. Again, the longer one leaves them attached, the stronger the result.

Other places you might wish to try:

Many areas of the body might do well with a bit of clamping either for sensation or visual appeal. Other parts of the breast, and any portion of the torso and limbs where one may gather a bit of skin come immediately to mind. In view of the tiny expense, one might use many dozens at one time.

Specific classic variations include but are not limited to:

A row, circle, on the belly or back one or more on the labia or other areas of 'wabbliebits' (tm-STella) the inner thigh or arm a belt of clothespins round the waist small clothespins on the webbing of fingers and toes the earlobe (the dangling legs of the clothespin brush the neck nicely) behind the knees and inside the elbows a circle round the thighs as a reminder to keep them spread.

'Zippers' and other tailoring:

Drill a hole through one leg of at least one dozen clothespins, thread them on a thong or cord, knotting them at small intervals, and you have created a zipper. One derivation for the name will become obvious the first time one tugs swiftly on one end of the cord and hears the sound made by the pins pulling off sensitive skin (there may be other sounds as well). The spacing may vary, longer ones may be made, and double rows of 20 or so clothespins are common. The inside of the upper arm or thigh are rather traditional for these, but most areas of the body are available, one of my own favorites being the side of the body normally covered by the arms, after binding the arms over the head. Ticklish and sensitive.

A 'tri-zipper' is my own name for three of these single zippers with one end of each fastened to a central ring (a key ring will do, but try to find something a bit larger). The ring is centered high on the belly, with the farthest pins attaching to the nipples and 'wabbliebits' (tm-STella), perhaps with a bit of spiral towards the center of each region, and the nearest ones fastening to the skin near the center. The look of horrified anticipation as you grasp the ring and begin to pull slowly outwards, each pin popping off in turn as the three zipper lines move towards the most sensitive areas is not to be missed, while pulling faster often causes volumes of coloratura shrieking.

Another design I have not seen elsewhere I have dubbed the Reverse Garter, 'reverse' in the sense of pulling down rather than up. Two bands of non-stretch material (webbing, fabric or leather will do) with buckles or other adjustable fasteners are put high up around each thigh, perhaps five inches from the pubis, although this dimension will vary. Sewn or riveted onto the band is a close (almost touching) row of four clothespins on the inside of the leg, with the clamping ends pointing upwards. These are first attached to the outer labia, then the band is adjusted to a position to gently stretch the lips and tightened so as not to be pulled further up the thigh. Intriguing in itself, and provides both more pull and an interesting display when she spreads her legs. Delectable. (There are major sensation differences between the outer lips and more inner tissues, grasping these areas with the same force is likely to cause considerably more pain than anticipated.)

Modifying pins for more intense sensations:

The simplest method is increasing the clamping force with one or more elastic bands round the clamping end, but there are several others.

Purchase some short 1/8th inch diameter brads or finish nails, and a drill of the same diameter. Drill three holes through the clamping end of two clothespins. Sand, grind, or file the ends of the brads to a smooth *ROUND* tip then push them through so they protrude into the clamping area while the clothespin is held open 1/8th inch. Use a drop of strong glue to hold the brads in place, and saw off the excess length from the outside of the pins after the glue dries.

Exceedingly nasty, as the clamping force now concentrates primarily on three small areas rather than the entire clamping area. Use this carefully, preferably with a fully adjustable clothespin as above, and make quite sure by testing on yourself first that the ends of the brads are NOT SHARP at all to avoid damage. Useful for those seeking more than a 'regular' clothespin may provide.

Several less extreme variations on the idea above are possible, all based on disassembling the clothespin, filing several grooves in the wooden clamping area, then reassembling the clothespin. Grooves and blunt 'teeth' aid in preventing slippage, and feel a bit more harsh than flat wood.

Removing perhaps one-half of the side of the clamping area with a saw or rasp provides two benefits, the same clamping pressure will be applied over a smaller area, and double the number of clothespin tips may fitted to the same bit of anatomy. Remember to round the edges slightly with sandpaper to avoid splinters or other inadvertent injury.

A design for testing the clamping force of clothespins:

Tradition demands testing on the web of one's hand, this is well and good for impromptu buying and to get a subjective feel for the actual sensation of a new design, but lacks precision and repeatability, qualities dear to the heart of any engineer. Some thinking and a bit of experimentation resulted in the following frame to directly and accurately measure clamping force in clothespins. With minor modifications, it serves to measure certain other sorts of spring-clamp pressure as well. I recognize the source of error from measuring the force at the hole rather than the clamping area, but it is a difference both trivial and consistent, and thus may be ignored for comparative testing.

Select two boards longer than 8 inches, wider than 1 inch, and perhaps 1/4 inch thick, and place them together, lying flat on top of one another. Drill a hole through both 5 inches or so from one end. Put a bolt through this hole, and thread a wingnut on the bolt. Clamp the other end of the boards firmly to a table or bench, slide one leg of the clothespin into the tapered space between the two boards, then tighten the wingnut. This frame will hold the clothespin for testing. Once the pin is held firmly in place, use a thin cord attached to a spring tension scale (I use an 'anglers scale', accurate from 1 to 28 pounds, any 'pulling' scale with a hook will do), and pull downwards against the clamping area until the clothespin opens. This measurement will vary from the pull necessary to just open the jaws to a higher reading before the jaws reach their limit of travel. As mentioned, the 'standard' clothespins I have tested fall somewhere in the region of 4-6 pounds, stretching for several days may yield less than 3 pounds, and manual stretching of the clothespin spring will swiftly reduce the pressure to 1 pounds or less. If one has the time and interest, coding the various strength ranges of tested clothespins for different tastes and applications is possible, either by color or by filing groove patterns in the legs to select by touch. "Twenty of the red ones for a start, I am in an evil mood tonight."

A reply to above from a woman on Society for Human Sexuality mailing list (shs@u.washington.edu):

"hmm..one thing that I go by, to see if it is something I want to make part of my sex-life is..TRY IT..so if I buy new clamps, I will try them on myself first...if they don't make my nipples come off...I keep them :).

With the clothespins...well, I thought the idea was a little weird and I didn't know how to approach my SO about it...so I bought 50 clothespins. Once they sat in my bedroom neatly packed in a box, curiosity took over...and I attached some to my breasts...well...I think I ended up with about 30 and wished my SO was there...the pulling off was ok..and they left those pretty red marks for the next hour or two. So trying things out alone isn't bad...

After that night I just gave my SO the clamps and grinned...because I couldn't wait any longer and wanted his loving and caring hands to attach them to my sensitive skin. But I tried it alone first to see, if this is a kind of pain I can take."


Spectator Magazine San Francisco Fights Censorship and Seeks Your Support
I've very much enjoyed reading Spectator Magazine for many years. Even though its primarily a local sex worker paper full of ads that of course have no interest outside the Bay area, it also has some of the best coverage of sex news and interesting articles.

I agree with many of the opinions expressed by editor Kat Sunlove who believes it is important for Spectator to continue to be sold from newsracks on the street in order to reach out to the broader society (not just those going to adult book stores) with news and information about sexual freedom and the variety of legitimate sexual expression and options available. For many years they have reached this audience by being available at newsracks to attract the eye and the interest of the midly curious, the sexually repressed, the confused. Spectator wants to spread the word about sexual freedom and have access to the town square.

But the California legislature passed a law that criminalizes the sale through machines of material deemed "harmful to minors". The worst part of the law is the requirement for 24-hour adult supervision, i.e. guards, at newsracks containing the material. This of course is totally impractical.

There have been a number of legal battles to date over the law. But recently Spectator lost its argument before the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. On September 11th, the three-judge ruled against Spectator. There are still other appeals available, including to the U.S. Supreme Court as a First Amendment Free Speech issue, but such an appeal would be very costly.

The intent of the law of course is to "protect" kids from exposure to sexually related materials. Protecting by hiding healthy normal sexuality makes it even more desirable for children. Our view of course is that if we were open with children about sexuality we would have a much healthier society. But the religious right in particular wants to be sure only one view of sex - the dirty until marriage view - is the one kids are exposed to. This results in a culture full of tease and titillation but with few skills about real sexual intimacy and fulfilling sexuality beyond just natural thrusting sex. We encourage your support of Spectator and suggest you might wish to subscribe by mail, regardless of your location, for the well-written sex articles even if you have no interest in all the ads. Annual subscriptions are $34/year for a weekly paper! For more information call 510-849-1615, write Spectator Magazine, PO Box 1984, Berkeley, CA 94701.


Sybian News
I continue to share Sybian with quite a few women with mostly great response. We also continue to sell a number of them, especially from the Internet.

Abco first started marketing Sybian in 1987 and less than 1% have been returned for repair. It is very well built and designed to last a long time!

About a year ago the motor and control board was updated allowing even faster vibration. However, this is not recommended other than in short bursts, and from my experience, the old motor generates plenty of vibration for most women. More may simply be too intense. Remember men, we are trying to give the women pleasure, not shoot her to the moon.

There are also two new inserts available that look more real. One is much smaller and one somewhat larger (primarily wider) than the originals. Some women prefer the new, soft, larger (fuller) one, but with women I've tried both with, most prefer the original. The Sybian experience is different for different women and preferences between the different inserts and stems (hard or soft) vary widely. Both new inserts are made of silicone and priced at $34.95 each.

Abco's attractive oak storage cabinets make using Sybian easier and more convenient. Stored inside, Sybian's already plugged in and ready to go. You can take it out and be ready to use it in about 15 seconds. A concealed drawer holds accessories, and there's a second outlet for a clock, radio or other light appliance. It is available in a light, medium or dark stain finish and left or right hinged door at a cost of $299 plus $30 for crating and shipping.

If you are curious what the heck Sybian is, ask for our extensive report on Sybian by E-mail. It is also included in the comprehensive package of back reports if you requested the $30/package for regular mail subscribers.


Liberated Christians Around The Globe

Contacts and Resources
We have started a listing of contact people for anyone willing to have their first names and either their city and phone or city and E-mail address listed publicly for the purpose of being contacts for local couples interested in the possibility of a local Fellowship Group of "Liberated Christians." We don't endorse any groups officially or have any responsibility for your activities but we will offer whatever we can to help you if you can get some couples together. Due to time and cost restraints we can't do a lot to support you but we would be happy to share ideas based on what we have done in Phoenix. We invite additional contact couples to submit a listing for our next issue.

From: 101516.1703@compuserve.com (Iain)
Location : Edinburgh, Scotland
We receive (through Iain's email) your newsletter, and wholeheartedly support the views and doctrine expressed within. The two of us and a further couple would like to instigate a local group here in Edinburgh, or perhaps Scotland more generally, if none exists already. Iain and Fiona

From: (New Address) mjs@enternet.com.au
Location: Melbourne, Australia
I would like to once again congratulate you on the content and presentation of the Newsletter, which provides a thoroughly positive, wholesome, and practical approach to many issues that most of the population *need* to, but are hesitant to, come to terms with. Regarding the idea of people becoming local contacts, I would be more than happy to be listed as a contact for Australia, or Melbourne if you want to be specific - I think it would be good for those in Australia to be able to initiate dialog with others nearby, and perhaps I could act as a catalyst for that. Since receiving the newsletters, much of the content has served to enhance my relationship with my partner, so it would be good to "put something back in". Martin

From: 9278js <9278js@chattanooga.net>
Location: North Georgia near Tennessee
Regarding experience with responding to ads they say: .. they leave a lot to be desired. It seems they are only concentrating on sex and not the relationship. If love and commitment are not part of the package we are not going to invest since the returns will be shallow. If intimacy, caring, concern and compassion do not precede passion then you have one night stands which leave you wondering "is this all there is". We live in north Georgia near the Tennessee border. If you get any requests wanting to form a group in the Chattanooga, TN, area have them contact me. Sincerely, Steve & Deb

From: gh990@cleveland.Freenet.Edu
Location: Pennsylvania
Dave - We always enjoy getting your newsletter. In part of the latest issue, you mentioned about receiving names for contact persons in different areas. My wife and I would consider starting an organization in our area. We live in Clearfield County, Pennsylvania . Dean & Wanda

From: Paul & Emily New England & Chicago
E-Mail:paulb@agate.net
We would be pleased to be added to the list of couples to contact who are readers of your newsletter and interested in Christian Swinging. We are a professional couple who have been swinging (though we do not like the term) for the last 10 years. We have a Christian background and have been greatly influenced by the writings of Eisler ("Chalice & the Blade" and "Sacred Pleasure"). We have a strong spiritual presence but have been nurtured to embrace God by opening our lives (personally & sexually) with other couples. We are avid nudists and work in New England & Chicago. (Also see their personal ad in personal ad section.)

From Malaysia
Thanks a lot for your incoming newsletters. I wish I could participate your gatherings, unfortunately the distance forbids me to have/share such experiences. My request here is perhaps you can introduce some of the Asian friends here who wish to share such knowledge and experience.

Majority of the oriental people are still conservative and shy. It will be very difficult for me to open up their mind for such occasion, and nevertheless I do not want to end up a swinging party which deviates from the original intention.

Dave's Note: He is interested in E-mail from others in Malaysia that want to have a contact point, but prefers they reply to us and we will give address instead of having his E-mail address published here.

OTHER RESOURCES WE RECOMMEND

Human Awareness Institute: Sex, Love & Intimacy Experiences

I hope this doesn't just sound like an ad, but I'll share about a group that has provided so many thousands of people a life changing awareness of true love, intimacy and sexuality (being so much more than genitals and thrusting). I learned more love in this group than in all my many years in conservative Christians churches, as an elder, Billy Graham counselor, etc. But I never really learned true love in a church. I and about 40,000 others have not just learned to love, but powerfully experienced love (real love not just sex!) via the Sex, Love & Intimacy Workshops conducted by Stan Dale's Human Awareness Institute (HAI).

Do you sometimes have sex when you really want love? Do you ever feel lonely and unhappy even when you are in a relationship? What we don't realize is that our very notions of these prevent us from having the successful intimate relationships we long for. As a result we unknowingly do the same things we've always done in relationships. - hope, pretend, cling, try harder, make do -- and get the same unsatisfying results time and time again.

The group shows you in a caring, loving, supportive way, new ways of relating and communicating that allow you to risk being even more loving and intimate. I found that there is a lot more to sex than just sex, which is often more mechanical than intimate and loving. They do much more than just discuss theories. In a caring, supportive environment with people you have developed trust with, the walls around your heart will gently melt. You will discover the freedom of letting yourself love and be loved at levels you have always known were possible. You will go home with useful ways of allowing yourself to experience deeper intimacy.

You also improve your relationship with yourself. You uncover your beauty, power and love for self. This increased self-esteem, along with new possibilities for relating, allows you to make exciting, powerful choices in your life and relationships that you never before thought possible. Over almost 30 years about 40,000 individuals from all walks of life have taken advantage of this extraordinary opportunity to enrich their lives and relationships.

Founder Stan Dale is a sexologist, radio personality and author. Stan has taught at universities and is on the faculty of the Institute for the Advanced Study of Human Sexuality. He has annually led delegations to Russia and now China, and other parts of the world to share empowering experiences. Stan and his wives Helen and Janet are assisted by a dedicated group of caring, trained facilitators and other leaders. This is the most powerful workshop available to deal with the important issues of love and relationships. There are HAI groups in San Francisco, Los Angeles, Detroit, Russia, Australia and Japan.

This is not a commercial. I have no financial interest, but I have never found another group that really teaches intimacy, communications and sexuality like HAI. It was very meaningful in my life and others I have suggested it to. Stan & Helen Dale and others at HAI are also enthusiastic supporters of Liberated Christians and our work. They also publish The Enlighten Journal - Real people sharing real experiences and real feelings on the Human Potential Path.

In California there is the original group in San Francisco, an active chapter in Los Angeles and some activities in San Diego. Short one-day intros are held in all three areas with the main weekend- long workshops at Harbin Hot Springs outside San Francisco and a center near Los Angeles

For info see Web site at http://www.hai.org or call:

For Southern Calif (LA and San Diego) Stu or Claire Lichter or their assistant at 310-378-1076.

For San Francisco or New England locations call the main HAI office at 800-800-4117 or, if local, 415-571-5524.

Michigan : Dayton & Renie Gnau at 313-383-2823.

Say hi from Dave at Liberated Christians if you call!

Also: Australia (very active group) Steve & Shirley Bowman at 011-616-236-6275 in Canberra.

Japan: Erina Ota : contact via HAI main office San Francisco shown above.


Catholic Source Supporting Sexual Freedom
Our friend from San Diego, Free Catholic Bishop Thomas Clary, is an outstanding resource both on Catholicism and sexuality. Bishop Clary is outspoken on being non-judgemental and condemning of any lifestyles. He strongly believes and advocates among Free Catholics that one's individual conscience is primary in determining right or wrong or appropriateness or inappropriateness.

A Bishop of the Free Catholic Church, he has been highly supportive of our more liberal approach to sexuality. He is not only as a Catholic Bishop, but he also is a Certified Sex Therapist, Diplomate and Clinical Supervisor of the American Board of Sexology, as well as a Fellow in the American Academy of Clinical Sexologists. He has been president of a large city's Mental Health Counselors Association. As a professional sexologist he knows the terrible results of the shame and repression of natural sexuality. As a sincere Catholic Bishop, he also respects the Church and its teachings but has the freedom to integrate his positive sexual attitudes with Catholicism. He can be contacted E-mail at pbishop@freecatholic.org or The Free Catholic Church, P.O. Box 1439, La Jolla, CA 92038-1439

The Free Catholic Church is an autonomous Catholic Church. Its bishops trace their Apostolic lineage from the Petrine succession though those bishops under the Archbishop of Rheims, who left the Roman Catholic Church objecting to the false teaching of papal infallibility.


The Affiliate Worldwide Network of Open Minded Friends with Alternative Lifestyles
This extensive publication, originated by Peter Riden, is an interesting, different resource for musicians, artists, nudists, naturists, polyamorous, swingers, S/M and other liberated lifestyles worldwide. Subscriptions are $75/yr US$ in North America, and $100/yr US$ elsewhere. Its published monthly with many good articles as well as a huge contact directory. Sample current issue $7US (N.A.) or $10US elsewhere. The Affiliate, 777-132 Barb Road, Vankleek Hill, Ontario KOB 1RO, Canada. E-mail: tgbarn@hawk.igs.net or on web: http://www.hawk.igs.net/~tgbarn/100.HTM.


Loving More Magazine
Loving More is a resource for people who believe its possible, practical and particularly rewarding to love more than one other person - responsibly, intimately, and in integrity. They value the diversity of forms that loving relationships can take, and support innovative chosen lovestyles such as group marriage, open couples, intimate networks, communities, tribes, & expanded families.

Their magazine is a quarterly journal offering readers a growing body of information and resources for folks living or exploring all new paradigm relationships. Loving More is edited by Ryam Nearing and Brett Hill. Ryam has been publishing & leading workshops on polyamory, group marriage and new paradigm relationships since 1984 and has been part of a group marriage since 1981. Brett is a body-centered therapist, author & workshop leader who has lived in polyamorous spiritual communities and believes passionately in loving more.

They also offer workshops that are focused specifically on the nuts and bolts of healthy multiple adult relationships (called Tools for Loving More), as well as an annual conference where the Loving More community can meet, share, and enjoy the delightfully free and new culture they create together.

Various membership options are available or $24/year or $6 sample issue of Loving More Magazine. You can subscribe on line or get more information at http://www.lovemore.com or write Loving More, Box 4358, Boulder CO 80306 or phone (303) 543-7540.


Sacred Space Institute Deborah Anapol, PhD.
Dr. Deborah Anapol wrote the classic book which I highly recommend: Love Without Limits: Responsible Nonmonogamy and the Quest for Sustainable Intimate Relationships. She has been working with groups and individuals exploring New Paradigm relating for over 20 years. Her work has been featured on Donahue, Joan Rivers, Sally Jessie Raphael and many other TV and radio talk shows across the country. She was co-founder of Loving More but now concentrates on seminars while Loving More Magazine continues as a separate publication.

Sacred Space Institute offers workshops both on polyamory (responsible non-monogamy) and sexual healing. Liberated Christians has written extensively on the positive aspects of many Tantra/Tao teachings through which, even if you have no interest in the Buddhist or Hindu traditions, you can have a very wonderful experience regardless of your religious belief. Sometimes however, we hesitated to recommend groups too "far out" into more spiritual beliefs than the concepts, ideas, and physical positions which we believe are so useful in Tantra/Tao even without the spiritualism. I raised this issue with Deborah and she replied, "I use 'Tantra' as a generic term for Sacred Sexuality since that's a word many people are familiar with but our focus is much more on Sexual Healing than on any particular religious orientation." She adds that they take a more universal spiritual approach and "practice California-style tantra which bears little resemblance to the Eastern variety." That sounds great to me and is similar to the approach taken by Stan Dale and HAI, that of a universal spirituality that most anyone can relate to. It is unfortunate, but one really has to look outside Christianity to the ideas of many Eastern beliefs for meaningful integration of sexuality and spirituality.

December 17-31, 1996 Deborah Anapol and others will lead a year-end retreat at Harbin Hot Springs (beautiful mountain community where Stan Dale, HAI Workshops held), for "creating a community where love is abundant, the body is sacred, & the Feminine is honored.

For information on various workshops or to order the Book Love Without Limits, write or call Dr. Deborah Anapol, PO Box 4322, San Rafael, CA 94913 415-507-1739.


Phoenix Community Circle
This is a great discussion group about community and relationships. Their purpose is to promote intentional communities, personal and spiritual growth and expanded family type of relationships. Topics may include but are not limited to: co-housing, land trusts, communal living, green technologies, beyond singles, beyond couples. polyamory, responsible nonmonogamy, economics of the 90s, social change, love & the law and raising children in a changing environment. They encourage membership in other good groups such as the Fellowship For Intentional Community and Network for A New Culture which share many of the ideas of the Zegg community in Germany. Meetings are held about every 2 weeks in homes throughout the Valley. I have been a guest speaker and some of their members also attend our Liberated Christian events. They are mostly heterosexual couples but welcome all poly combinations, and, I believe, all sexual orientations. For more info write them at 4542 West Monte Cristo Avenue, Glendale, AZ 85306-2722; call 602-978-0881 or E-mail: 71612.3110@compuserve.com. There is a similar group in Tucson led by Chaz Bufe, PO Box 1731, Tucson, AZ 85702-1731, 520-628-8720 or chzbufe@azstarnet.com


Arizona Stroking Community
A stroking community is a support group for people who are getting in touch with themselves by getting in touch with others with non-sexual, noninvasive touch.

People never outgrow their need to touch and be touched, and suppressing those needs is hazardous to health, both physical and emotional. The group provides a safe environment for giving and receiving good strokes in a supportive, nurturing environment for friends to enjoy clothing optional, non-sexual massage, respecting the personal privacy and boundaries of each individual.

The Stroking Community was originally a national network of groups founded by David Linton and four others based on massage workshops held in Philadelphia in the 1970s, led by some of the prime developers of Esalen massage. Their motto was: "massage a way of love".

I attended, in the 1980s, Stroking Community workshops on the East Coast, enhancing both the physical and loving spiritual aspects of Esalen massage by doing group massage. I have a detailed description of Esalen massage available on request if interested.

Before moving to Phoenix I lived in Minneapolis all my life and was very active in the Minnesota Therapeutic Massage Network of professional therapists. At an annual meeting we had David Linton as the keynote speaker. He was outstanding in his expression of loving mankind and expressing it with massage. Sadly he died suddenly and unexpectedly soon after this presentation. The biography he wrote for the speech turned out to be his obituary, published by The Stroking Times newsletter, March, 1987. We use a short tape in the Liberated Christian massage workshop which shows David, a hunchedback older man with a heart of gold and filled with love which he taught and expressed through massage.

The Arizona Stroking Community is more than seven years old and meets monthly at homes throughout the Valley. There is a couples only group and a main group which meets on the 2nd Sat of each month for everyone. Single men need to make reservations or be on a waiting list since there often is "too much male energy" and gender balance is roughly maintained. Some of the members are also active in our Liberated Christian group. For information on the Arizona Stroking Community contact founder, Neil Baker, at 602-276-3965. We do not have any information on other remaining communities since there is no longer any central coordination or listing of various groups.


Anakosha Village Of Freedom The Sanctuary Private Party House
Naples Florida

One of the few people I've met in the lifestyle with such an interest in bringing more intimacy to swinging is Nancy, founder of Club Sensitivity Seminars, which for 12 years offered seminars on swinging in Tampa before her husband died and a local preacher tried to get their group closed. Nancy with her new husband Doug have founded Anakosha and the Sanctuary and host seminars and weekly swing parties again. They are dedicated to the exploration of sexual and spiritual freedom. For more info write Anakosha, 2338 Immokalee Road, #146, Naples, FL 33942 or call 941-436-2014.


Family Synergy Southern California
Family Synergy is a longtime established group for people interested in nonpossessive, caring interpersonal relationships. They believe that people can live fuller, more rewarding lives, achieving more of their potential, if they develop an increased awareness of their freedom of choice concerning interpersonal relationship styles. Given this awareness, many will select open, multipli-committed relationships. They offer various educational groups, parties and other activities. For more information on membership and newsletter write PO Box 3073, Huntington Beach, CA 92605-3073


The Cottage In Pennsylvania
Nestled in the hills outside of Gettysburg Pennsylvania this is a place for conservative people to come and relax and have fun in their own private way. They also have a very good website with a variety of good information and with nice comments about Liberated Christians which has referred a number of people our way. Check them out at http://www.qis.net/~cottcpl/ or E-mail John and Dottie at cottage@cvn.net


Personal Ads
We Invite Free Couples Personal Ads

As an experiment and subject to change we invite personal ads from couples. We ask that they be limited to about 50 words and they are subject to our approval. We cannot accept single male advertisers just looking for partners since such ads are very unlikely to bring any response. We encourage couples to advertise special interests. We will run ads for two issues and then they will have to be resubmitted. Please include in your ad contact information which can be E-mail address only or complete mailing address and/or phone. Remember, however, not all subscribers have E-mail capabilities.

From: hannas@earthlink.net
HI! I'm a MWF, 35, 5'4", 123lbs, that is interested in expanding my circle of friends and lovers. I am a very loving and caring person and have my husband's support and encouragement to explore new relationships with others. I live in Northern New Jersey and am interested in Christian people in this area (from NY to PA) that share the attitude about sexuality as discussed in the Liberated Christians Newsletter. Are you a couple or a group that would like to share some quality time with another friend? I so, I would be interested in hearing from you. Please write to P.O. Box 5646, Clark, NJ 07066. I look forward to meeting you soon!

From: bnb@stwd.com.
Attractive, healthy, M/W/C, 40's, priorities- friendship, courtesy, honesty, fun, discretion. and sensual adventures. Enjoy many indoor & outdoor activities, She's playful, enjoys giving pleasure and open minded. He's easy going, humorous and fun loving. (5'7", 32D-22-36, 135 lb, brown/ green-hazel ; 6'0", 185 lb, brown/ brown). Thanks, B&B P.O. Box 86102 Tucson, AZ. 85754

From: CoupleMA@aol.com
We live just west of Boston, Massachusetts and are interested in meeting other like-minded couples. We would like to be listed in your listing. Thanks, Richard & Peggy

From: Z3a@aol.com
Happily married professional couple, both in 40s, located in Huntington - Charleston area of West Virginia. We are Christians and are seeking a special friendship with other like-minded couples. We love the beach and wood fires on winter days. Write Box 9000, Spring Hill Station, South Charleston, WV 25309

From: rosebud@stwd.com
Hello! We are a MWC in eastern PA, 38 & 42 yrs old. T is 5' 6" 155 lb. D is 5' 8" 165 lb. We are looking for other open minded christian couples for friendship. We are christians who are involved in the swinging lifestyle. Looks and age are unimportant, we are very nonjudgemental and believe in accepting people for who they are on the inside. See our web page at: now bad link Drop us a line, we love makeing new friends. Email: rosebud@stwd.com Address: PO Box 391, Blue Ball, PA 17506

From paulb@agate.net
We are Paul & Emily, an attractive couple in our 40's who have been in the swinging scene (off and on) for a few years. We are both professionals. We are interested in meeting new couples (couples only) via correspondence or meetings. We reside in the northeast (we live in northern New England) and Chicago (we travel to Chicago monthly on business). We are interested in meeting other couples during our visits or in New England. Furthermore, to make matters even more confusing, we are co-owners of a condo at Paradise Lakes near Tampa. Paradise Lakes is a clothes-optional resort. We would also be interested in meeting couples in Tampa. We look forward to hearing from you and providing a more detailed description about us. Paul & Emily paulb@agate.net

From artr@netaxs.com, Philadelphia
I'm director of Aquarian Research working on the positive future for the planet. Judy and I have been in open marriage 20 years and are looking for others to form a group marriage community to work on a positive future for all.

Dave's Note: Art has been active in many Intentional Community Groups and writes many articles. Aquarian Research also has a newsletter and other information. You can write Art Rosenblum: 5620 Morton Street, Philadelphia, PA 19144.

Would love to meet other liberated Christians in NW Oklahoma for fellowship and discussion, especially near Enid. Vern Rossman (405)234-0416 E-Mail: vjross@fullnet.net.
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