PO Box 55045, Phoenix AZ 85078-5045
Promoting Intimacy and Other-Centered Sexuality
COPYRIGHTED 1998 ALL RIGHTS RESERVED - MAY BE REPRINTED OR QUOTED FROM ONLY IF CREDIT IS GIVEN LIBERATED CHRISTIANS, MAILING ADDRESS IS SHOWN AND WE ARE SENT A COPY OF PUBLICATION.
March 1997 (Spring 97) Special Report:
& Ideas For New Local Groups
AN INVITATION TO HELP FORM LOCAL GROUPS IN
Special Note To Internet Subscribers Since we don't know your location
(Updated November 1998)
With our subscription list topping 3,000, in 1997, we believed it was practical to encourage local groups to form. As discussed in another article in this newsletter, Liberated Christians encourages other groups to form. We have lots of couples in Florida (especially in Orlando area) on our interested list. But we need leadership couples to do the local organizing and all the local work! There was for awhile a group in Southern California (see older article below). Bill spent the Summer of 1998 in the Pennsylvania area and has tried to help people start a group in that area, but without success. The key problem is all the work it takes getting people together led by a strong, dynamic leadership couple.
If you think you would be interested in participating in a group in your area, would you please contact us and let us know the CITY and STATE of your residence, as well as tell us more about yourselves and your interests relative to a group. In particular we would like to know if you would be interested in being involved in the planning stages of such a group and if you have any ideas on where to meet (homes the best).
Local enthusiasm and practical participation are essential for any new groups to be successful. A lot of hard work will have to be done. We need people willing to help in practical ways as well as to participate in the total process of creating new groups. Will you join us and some of your "neighbors" in this exciting effort? Please contact Bill by e-mail at: email@example.com or firstname.lastname@example.org
New Liberated Christian Groups On East and West Coasts
by BILL PARIS
We have some exciting news. We are working on plans to start Liberated Christians fellowship groups outside of Arizona. One of these will be in Southern California, the other somewhere on the East Coast, probably located in the corridor stretching from New York to Washington, DC.
Since the beginning of Liberated Christians we have frequently been asked: "Is there a group like yours in our area?" When we answer "Not so far as we know," the next question is: "Could you start a group in our area?" or "How could we start a group in our area?"
It is with these questions in mind that we begin printing personal ads from people around the country who are looking for like-minded others with whom to get acquainted and possibly form the nucleus of new groups.
What's Happened Recently
For some time a number of couples from Southern California have subscribed to our newsletter. Some of those have spoken to us about their desire to find like-minded Christians in their area. Something similar has recently happened on the East Coast.
We have begun discussions with some of these folks and have discovered that some are enthusiastic about helping plan and facilitate initial gatherings in their areas. At this point Bill is working with these people to draw up goals for these groups and set dates and places for the first gatherings. It is our hope that these gatherings can take place by the fall of 1997.
Much of our excitement about the possibility of these groups has come recently from Christians who consider themselves to be theologically "conservative" or seriously committed to a personal Christian faith. We are especially searching for folks who describe their Christian commitment in the above ways, although these groups will not be closed to any who wish to explore the field of multiple partner intimacy.
Many seriously committed Christians have come forward recently expressing the desire and need to be in fellowship with others in poly lifestyles who share their spiritual perspectives. We believe that such groups could fill an enormous need in the lives of those who have struggled so hard to reconcile their intimate desires with their faith and who have had to do it on their own, without the support and encouragement of others of similar faith.
The March 1997 newsletter also contained two major articles which are elsewhere on this site:
"Standing Up And Walking Tall": A Manifesto of Self-Esteem for Christian Polys
SEXUAL FREEDOM, POLYAMORY AND CHRISTIANITY: THE CASE FOR COMPATIBILITY
The last "regular" newsletter was Fall 1996:
FALL 1996 Newsletter
Snail mail subscriptions which look better than ASCII formatting are available for $20/year. Or for $30 you receive comprehensive package of back reports and newsletters as well as a one year snailmail subscription. This internet version is free. We also hope to have a web site in the near future but don't currently have one.
SPECIAL NOTE TO SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA COUPLES AND SINGLE WOMEN: There is
some interest in forming a Fellowship Group in the Los Angeles area. We need host couples
and other leadership couples. If you are interested in either hosting, leading or
attending a group in the Los Angeles area, please E-mail me at email@example.com (or
reply to this message). We have no way of knowing where most of our E-mail subscribers are
located. If we try to start a Los Angeles group, we will mail a notice to our So
California snail mail regular subscribers as well as E-mail those that reply indicating an
interest. For details on what the Fellowship Group offers in Phoenix, see the very end of
Note when viewed on the web, all 136k+ of this document many have to be loaded before hyperlinks from index will work!
Phoenix Fellowship Group "Loving More" Reflections on Last Intro Group
Room of Love Discussion / Nancy from Anakosha Comments
Emotional & Physical Intimacy
Your Letters & E-mail
So. California Lifestyle Friendly Therapist
On The Humorous Side
Basics of Male Sexual Stimulation
Being Christians & Active in Lifestyle
Pain & G Spot Experiences
Pleasure & G Spot Experiences
The Problem of Weight & Sexual Shame
Dealing With Jealousy
Smoke Filled Clubs
Catholics and Condoms Again
Presbyterians Fidelity & Chastity
Men Over 60 Not Over Sex
Have We Forgotten How to Make Love?
All About Clothespins
Spectator Magazine Fights Censorship
Liberated Christians Around the World
Resources We Recommend
Since we went to a quarterly publication schedule we are getting many E-mails for those wanting to be sure they haven't missed an issue since we used to publish more often. It's nice to be missed, but we have also been very busy with the Phoenix Group, answering many E-mails and letters, still trying to work on a web site, and earn a "real" living to support us and offset some of the high costs of what we consider the Liberated Christian ministry. We now have almost 2500 E-mail subscribers to our newsletter in addition to snail mail subscribers. Since the Internet E-mail version is free and the $20/yr snail mail basically just covers our costs we welcome and appreciate any donations (especially from Internet E-mail subscribers) to help cover our costs of reaching others and sharing ideas that have been so helpful to many. While we are a "nonprofit" we have decided not to file as a charitable organization since the paperwork is immense.
Fellowship Group News - "Loving More" Reflections on Last Intro Group
I thought I'd share an open letter just sent to the 37 people that attended the latest Liberated Christians intro meeting with its emphasis on "Loving More." Obviously we would never identify any sources of the comments since we respect privacy. But we quote anonymously in our newsletter, etc., where comments might help others.
September 18, 1996
Dear Intro Friends,
I thought I'd share with you some reflections and observations gleaned
from the Intro we experienced together last Saturday evening.
---A little girl's story: A woman shared a story written by her
10-year-old about falling in love with five young men, not being able to choose one among
them, so deciding that she should marry them all!
---Touching without shame: Another woman shared her unusual experience of
being inadvertently seen naked in her back yard by a male neighbor, who said he had never
seen his wife completely naked. He asked if he could touch her breasts, which she gladly
allowed. It was a tender and respectful moment, but one, she said, whose energy could not
be carried forward because of the wife.
---A love observed: I was privileged to notice throughout the evening the
warm and tender looks a partner frequently gave his wife, especially when he saw her nod
her head in understanding at something Dave or I said about love and open relationships,
especially when she shared how he had helped her open up about her sexuality.
---A couple's disappointment and hope: One couple expressed the
discouragement of attending a former church and feeling that the people were harsh and
critical with one another, focusing on rules and demands, rather than love. They had never
expected to find the openness among Christians, especially regarding sexuality, that they
found in this group.
---A conversation overheard: Among the buzz of many conversations after
the session, a small scrap of one particularly caught my attention. A woman was telling
several others how Jesus came to teach us to love one another.
What themes seem to run through all of these examples and were expressed
by others during our evening together?
I think, first, there is the theme of LOVE--how we ought to love one
another as God loves us; how we should be set free to love MORE AND MORE and, certainly,
more than one person in deeply intimate ways.
It is also the theme of love DENIED. In terms of our sexuality in
particular, culture and religion create almost impenetrable barriers to the fulfillment of
our sexual potential in loving others. There is the barrier of FEAR: we are afraid to
express that love to those to whom we are attracted--the possibility of rejection
overwhelms us because the other person may not be able to accept our breaking of the
rules. There is the barrier of the GOD of traditional religion, whom we have IMAGINED
wishes to restrict our loving, rather than expand it.
There is the theme of TRUST. I saw trust DISPLAYED in the eyes of the
woman whose husband loved her enough to gently urge her to open up to more love. I also
sensed trust LONGED FOR in the expressions of so many who wanted to love more and wanted
to find lovers whom they could trust with their deepest thoughts and feelings.
What is the point of all that I have said? Yes, Dave and I spoke of all
these things in our presentation, but it was YOUR hearts that responded in the snapshots I
have shared. It is you whose hearts hold both the potential and the longing for LOVING
This is what we hope we can say to you with confidence and commitment:
Welcome to a place where love already alive can grow.
Welcome to a place where new loves can be born.
Sincerely, for Liberated Christians,
When we shared this on the Loving More E-mail list we
received this response:
"Wow...Thank you for sharing your Liberated Christians meeting summary with the lovelist. You have put a whole new twist on my view of the Christian religion. It seemed that the religion was created just to tell us that sex is bad. All of my life I have rejected their rules and judgementalism. I did understand that I was really opposed to how those around me interpreted the bible more than what the bible actually said, but your positive loving view of Christianity makes it more than palatable for this left wing crusader. Now I can enjoy the Christmas seasons with all the gusto I have within me and not fear that I am not worthy of being a part of their church because of my sexuality applaud you for taking such a unique posture. It would be fun to listed to some of your conversations with the right wing fundamental Christians... Unfortunately the whole family values movement is a movement of isolationism. People are more and more fearful of each other. I believe that communities are the answer ...not just family"
Note: We agree with all these good comments.
From October Intimacy Workshop
"Room of Love" Goal
Including Ideas of Nancy of Anakosha / The Sanctuary In Florida
In the Intimacy Workshop on October 5, 1996, we shared with a great group
some ideas and practical examples of loving intimacy. Here is a part of what Dave shared,
followed by some comments on group discussion on physical techniques, vs emotional
We know that learning to share intimacy, especially in a group setting, is
difficult and we really are trying to brave new territory since we don't see any model to
follow. Some that are active with Stan Dale's workshops and who attend their ongoing
monthly gatherings tell me that these tend to be more social, talking events than a
continuation of the so called "room of love" that is created at the Workshops.
It seems we need structured activities to be intimate, at least in a group.
I've been at swing conventions in orgy rooms with lots of sex going on but
little of what I perceive as real intimacy. Our goal is to try and someday create, for
those interested, a room of love as a group, as well as encouraging you to include more
intimacy in your own private relationships. Many of you may have no interest in any group
setting, but for those who do and already have great intimacy skills, hopefully you will
enjoy sharing, helping and supporting others who want to have more intimacy in their
There has been the beginning of this at some of the parties and I hope
this will continue. Also, just in the last two weeks I've had two great threesome
experiences with people from the latest intro that indicate we do have some people
interested in loving intimacy in outside relationships.
The only person I've met in the lifestyle that really seems to have tried
to make this happen is Nancy, founder of Club Sensitivity Seminars, which for 12 years
offered seminars on swinging in Tampa before her husband died and a local preacher tried
to get their group closed. Nancy and I share many ideas on intimacy, but often have the
same frustrations. We've been exchanging letters for a few years and finally met at a
Florida swing convention last spring where I did our Liberated Christians presentation,
and we were both on a sex and spirituality panel. Nancy and her new husband Doug have
founded Anakosha and the Sanctuary and host weekly swing parties again.
Nancy jokingly once told me she did such a great job training swingers,
but has failed in teaching love and intimacy. I'd like to share Nancy's ideas from her
Reunion Newsletter, since she has so many more years of experience than I and as a woman
expresses what many women feel. She says:
"To encourage sincerity and love would do a world of good for a lot
of people. Sex without love, or at least some form of affection, is hard to handle.
Hugging just a little bit longer, and stroking with just a little more meaning behind it,
as though we really cared for them as people, not just as sex objects, would greatly
enhance the depth of pleasure and prolong the feeling of arousal. We all need some
emotional healing time.
Awesome things happen sexually when loving behavior is integrated into the
sex act, both at home and in the lifestyle. Yes, I know. A lot of people are afraid of it,
especially men. That's why it's been cut out of lifestyle parties. Men feel awkward with
it but the behavior can be learned. They are learning. I know men who have changed
dramatically under their wives' tutelage. And it's time.
Now that we've learned how to have sex with the many others, it is time to
go to the next level and learn how to love the many others.
When SSG was at its zenith, we saw love being experimented with during the
parties between people. Granted, not a whole lot, but it was beginning. It was working.
We understand that most men don't want to do it that way, and since the
lifestyle is overly male in its approach we have goal oriented parties with sex as the
focus, not love or affection or extended foreplay. If women were in charge, parties would
be different. (I can hear loud sounds of protest over that one!) But Lifestyle parties
really do overlook the need for emotional comfort and the fact that most people would
prefer, if they had their 'druthers, to "grow" into someone's space rather than
be rushed, pushed or pulled into it.
I have talked with a number of men whose wives have quit attending
parties. The husband blames menopause and thinks she is losing interest in sex. But in my
discussions with some of these women I find that they are not losing interest in sex as
much as they are increasing their need for affection and not getting it at the parties.
They want to be held and loved more before sex is thrust upon them. They want to feel as
if they are wanted and appreciated as a person and not a sex object. They want to be
physically stroked, massaged, kissed, embraced and caressed for longer periods of time in
extended foreplay. A lady recently told Doug & me that she was coming away from
parties feeling "empty," that immediately upon arrival men were groping.
Well, not everybody wants love in their swing life and that's okay. Not
all women do, either, and that's all right. You don't have to go with the flow if you
don't want to. It's your choice."
For about a year now Nancy has been back with swing parties at a new place
called The Sanctuary, trying to integrate love and intimacy with swinging. Just this past
week I received a long letter from Nancy...here are some of her interesting comments.
"I'm starting off each party with an invitation to join me in a
massage in the mediation-turned-group room. This has been working quite well" She
then jokes about too much social conversation going on saying, "I really do believe
people talk too much. They would have a lot more fun if they stopped talking and started
stroking." (I very much relate to that since I tend to sometimes communicate love for
a person better with my hands than my mouth).
Back to Nancy...She continues, "The feminine issue of needing more
stroking is top most in my mind. While men have the same problems that women have, women,
I've found, can break through their negative programming easier than men and become highly
sensual with prolonged touching, soothing stroking, kissing and affection, plus labia
massage followed by yoni (G-spot) massage. The technique is teachable. But with men, its
harder. I've not had the same luck with men because they resist so much. They want to stay
in control. I believe impotency could be helped a great deal if only men would give up
being the controller. I would like to see a good workshop showing men how to love
unconditionally. The Lifestyle is full of men who just think about themselves and forget
that they are supposed to give pleasure too. Men are not programmed to give pleasure,
except for a few. I want to be fair and say there are those men out there who are
different, but to tell the truth, I don't see them hardly at all. So it is time for erotic
skill training sessions.
We are going to add one more party a month for the 20's and 30's age
group. The older people are very difficult to teach new ways to, so we've concluded that
we can't change them. But the younger couples are more sensitive and more trainable. They
are the future."
While Nancy may be hard on men, many women also tell me the same thing and
some are amazed at what is possible, when they share with me intimately. Women keep
telling me they so much want more good loving touch intimacy, not JUST great physical sex
and orgasms. But many men don't understand this desire of many women.
So what is this magic that so many women want but only a few men seem to
know how to give? Its almost too simple to explain. Its simply loving, nurturing touch.
Its simply the right kind of touch and knowing how to touch and where to touch in loving
intimate ways. It is not about groping sexual touch. Foreplay can be full of great
intimate touch instead of "Ready - Brace." While having sex, it's different ways
of holding her or positions that are much more intimate than just the typical
"spread- her-legs-and-get-it-in-and thrust" type of sex. I enjoy a legs-together
position that most women tell me they really enjoy but often have never done before. Even
in the hug circle in the Phoenix groups, despite all our direction about intimacy, not
sexual groping, in the past women have told us that some men just insist on being too
sexual. They have not learned that sexual touch is much different than intimate touch.
Many men find enjoyment when they learn intimacy, but others will never enjoy anything but
sexual touch. And some women don't want intimacy either. Some men and women need to break
barriers to intimacy, but when they do, they often they find their sexuality much more
Emotional And Physical Intimacy
In the Intimacy meeting we also had a very good discussion about emotional intimacy. While much of what we talked about was physical "techniques," most people need more emotional intimacy which includes communications and getting to know and trust the person. This is why traditional swinging is not emotionally fulfilling to many couples.
We can enjoy the "techniques" of physical intimacy but we also
want to be nurtured and feel close emotional intimacy. This is harder and takes longer to
develop for most people. Yet good touch and physical intimacy can also be shared and
enjoyed for its own sake. We don't have to eliminate either type of intimacy but seek to
integrate both in our relationships, whether they are primary, secondary or casual
relationships. Sometimes we emphasize physical intimacy in the group but we don't mean to
exclude the importance of emotional intimacy.
As one wise woman wrote reflecting on the intimacy discussion at the
"...physical intimacy can enhance a chance encounter or be a building block for a deeper relationship. By getting beyond physical inhibitions you open the door for emotional levels at a later point. Physical inhibitions are the easiest to work on and really should be the first step not the last. If the group never gets to the next step, OK. It could take awhile and that is not a bad thing."
She continues to express excellent ideas on intimacy by saying:
"Intimacy is really MUCH more (than physical); it's a connection to the other person
and cannot be done immediately. You can like the person, enjoy their presence, but without
full intimacy you cannot participate in the full experience.
"The psyche is what is 'turning' you on. All the physical elements
may exist but without a desire there isn't going to be anything more than just rubbing
parts. Example, when I am with someone I ALWAYS look in their eyes. But in the absence of
words all that is happening is two people trying to figure out what the other is thinking.
If he doesn't' care what I am thinking he will initiate more physical activity, if he does
care he will talk to me; make some statement. I will say something like 'I am really happy
to be here' or 'I am excited about sharing with you because I think you are nice (or like
your ideas or something about them)'. At that point I have made an attempt at emotional
intimacy. There is more meaning attached to my next physical touch not an empty gesture
with guesses behind it. (It goes further than that...)
"Good sex is OK, but I think life is built on touching inside each
other not just on the outside. I could walk into your room of love and have sex with
anyone in the room. Even the worst lover can be coaxed and directed into a pleasurable
experience. But there would be people in the room that I would prefer to be with, because
of the next level. The emotional level. He would respect me more, care about me, start
connecting with me on the inside. That's where the next step lies. (There is nothing wrong
with sex, enjoying it, getting beyond inhibitions. But there is also more than
Your Letters & E-mail
Dave's note: Hopefully we are not going overboard printing so many replies we receive. But we believe the experiences and responses of real people are very interesting and we can all learn and grow by these real life experiences in addition to theory from articles we write or reprint. We continue to welcome these types of letters and E-mail. To protect privacy no identifying personal information or last names will ever be revealed unless permission is given.
In Response to our Internet Post About Christian Intimacy and Biblical
What a blessing you are..
I was on the net tonight...wrestling as Jacob did with the angel.. Torn
between guilt and what I think should be.. I opened the newsgroup and found you.. Thank
you...thank you...thank you
"Wicked Week Of Evangelical Minister" Thank you so much for your newsletter
and other items you sent me. I especially enjoyed the "Wicked Week of Evangelical
Pastor". I too am an ordained minister in a very conservative denomination. I have
watched many fellow pastors be dismissed for holding the views expressed in your
newsletter. I think that is a shame, but its reality... I Would you please forward my
E-mail address to the pastor who went on the wicked week. I really would like to talk to a
colleague of like mind. Needless to say, there is no one else I can talk to about
sexuality, that is except my wife.
Thank you for publishing that wonderful short article from the "evangelical
pastor" from the mid-south regarding their experiences at Hedonism II and with a more
open sensual and sexual orientation. How refreshing and encouraging to learn of other
thoughtful genuine believers who love God and have discovered the truth and beauty and joy
of more open sensual relationships. We often marvel at what the Lord has allowed us to
experience and his wonderful affirmation of this discovery, in so many ways.
Like that pastor, we are quite visible in our community and families, and our discoveries and experiences would not be understood or well received by most others we care for and fellowship with...We're leaving this Saturday for our second stay at Hed II.
Dave's Note: We get so many letters from ministers thanking us for
exposing the biblical truths about sexuality since they have to remain in the closet or
risk their jobs. Tradition has totally bent what the original scriptures said, and those
with theological backgrounds often understand this much more so than the typical
"lay" person sitting in the pew who just assumes the preacher is preaching
correct teachings. Regarding sexuality issues they are actually preaching tradition, which
is very different from what the scriptures actually meant in the culture in which they
Bill's Childhood Sexuality Article Continues to Receive Many Letters:
Subject: Childhood Sexuality Followup to Earlier
Hello. I read your article posted on usenet and couldn't agree more. I am
now 19, male. When I was growing up, my parents never discussed anything with me. Its
wrong, they'd say, and change the subject. Now, having had only two girlfriends and still
a virgin, I wonder, is it my fault? Is it my fault that I am 19 and have never really had
a chance to express my sexuality other than to myself? I feel that growing up I basically
have had to teach myself from right and "wrong", "moral and immoral",
and have come to the conclusion to say screw all the religious foney baloneys. I agree
100% that they fear sex because its the one thing that drives them crazy. Perfect example,
Jimmy Swaggert. He was against pornographic magazines, saying that these "devil"
tools drive people to rape and think dirty thoughts. The truth is that that's what those
magazines made HIM think and feel, and the whole time he's there picking up hookers at
7-eleven's. I just hope now that since I think I've finally have developed my "sexual
conscious" I can find someone who will help me further explore my feelings. It sucks
having missed such a crucial part of my life, and that's why I must ask, is it my
Can No Longer Receive Our Newsletter Out Of Fear
The data you sent me was good and I printed it out. The problem is my wife
called from work and said she had talked to someone at work about the net and wanted me to
teach her how to use it. So, I can't have you sending any E-mail newsletters to me. If she
saw what you sent me it would be divorce time! Really... I am involved in a very sexless
marriage due to years of molestation when she was a child. Otherwise a great lady! So,
please drop me from your list.
Liked our Articles on the Internet
I've read some of your articles posted on the net. The information
provided is by far the most valuable, mature and open minded information I've seen
regarding human sexuality.
I periodically post our article "Getting In Touch With Intimacy"
on the Internet. Here is an interested E-mail from a male seeking such a group in his city
"I have been able to snuggle with a few people, all of whom live very far away, and found it deeply healing, and very, VERY much want to find other people to non-sexually snuggle with. I come from a very abusive, neglectful home, and this helps a lot...maybe an 'inner child' group, I don't know."
Dave's comments: Maybe someday we can have such a group in Phoenix or in other cities. With all the emphasis on sex, too often we pass up the opportunity for just good high touch intimacy, such as snuggling, without it having to lead to sex.
Additional Comments From "Wicked For A Week" Pastor discussing teaching
biblical classes says:
...had about six young couples ask me all kinds of questions after class.
When I made the statement that I could not see a biblical prohibition against non
monogamous marriages they commended me for my biblical honestly and really seem to
appreciate the fact that I was not trying to bring current cultural morality into
spirituality. Seems that age group of Christians, the 20s to early 30s crowd, are much
more open to the truth and an honest look at the Scriptures than the older generation.
Guess they don't call them generation X for no reason!
Premature Ejaculation Solution
I found a product that helps men that suffer from Premature Ejaculation. I
have struggled with this problem for many years. Last year I saw a piece on TV in which
guys were using prozac to control their PE. I contacted a local urologist and he
prescribed some similar drug. It didn't work for me all that well. Just made me real
mellow. I have always thought that my problem was that I was just real sensitive. Well I
found a product on the internet called "Longevity." When it arrived I tried it
and it worked. However, I also recognized the smell and the shape of the bottle. What it
actually is, is Maximum Strength Anbesol which you can buy at your local drug store for
about 1/3 of what they charge you!!! But it was worth it. Ambesol works great as long as
you let the alcohol evaporate off your penis before making any contact with her vagina. I
know this is probably not a "real solution" to many men's problems with PE but
it sure made our sex life a lot better. Now, she usually reaches her climax before I do.
In response to our periodic Internet posting of our long Sybian article:
Hi Dave, Well that was the most enlightening piece of reading I ever came across! Thanks
for the info!!!
Another Sybian reply from initial post that doesn't tell exactly what
Sybian is...but invites people to request more information:
>Good God man!
>Spill the beans!
>Hows it work?!?!
>Do I change my name to "Sybian" and then the babes just
start following me around?
>Do I also need to go to Tampa and hang around the right supermarkets?
I then reply with our extensive Sybian report.
North Carolina Christian Couple Would Like To Network With Others says:
"What excites us most and gives us the most optimism is the hope of
networking with and eventually meeting others we consider our "peer group," i.e.
those who have high moral and ethical standards, and those who accept Jesus Christ as
their personal Lord and Savior, combined with a non-shamed (but not prideful) embracing of
a physically non-monogamous Life-style. If there is a local group (within 100 miles of the
Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill area), please write us a short note back giving us a point of
contact. If there isn't a local group, we would like to seek out any Liberated Christian
affiliated group anywhere in North Carolina, South Carolina, or Virginia."
They go on and express an interest in forming a Liberated Christian
affiliate if there is none. We very much encourage just this, but so far no groups have
actually formed outside of Phoenix. We encourage people in their area to contact them.
They have given permission to publish their names, and are the same Cathy and Kent whose
article "Being Christians and Active Lifestyle Participants is printed later in this
Here is their personal ad:
MWC, she 44 and bi, he 39 and straight, spiritually and emotionally and
sexually nurturing and caring people seek compatible couples and singles as friends and
lovers. We love without limits the only boundaries being no male bisexuality,
"real" pain or videos. Prefer to meet those within 100 miles of us. Cathy &
Kent, POB 36070, Raleigh NC 27606-6070.
Texas Preacher's Kid & Wife Struggling With Lifestyle Issues Seek Others
Dave, thanks so much for the newsletter and your and others writings! It
has helped me immensely in my struggle with "Traditional Christianity" and the
hard line hell fire and damnation upbringing of my youth.
I am a recovering Southern Baptist PK, (Preachers Kid), who struggled with
the exclusiveness of monogamy from the first time that the girl I had a crush on in the
sixth grade said, "I can't be your girlfriend because I am Doyle's girlfriend".
My honest reaction was why can't you be girl friend to both of us.
Then there was all of the scripture of the Old Testament with men having
multiple wives and sexual variety in their lives, and the double standard of that time
that really bothered me.
When my first wife and I got into swinging in the early seventies, we both
suffered much guilt and dropped out of church because we couldn't be "swingers"
and Christians too! What a crock of shit.
We made some really close friends in the swinging community. In fact four
couples developed our relationship into one very close to a group marriage.
When the pressures of family and friends "to get back in
church," and guilt they heaped upon us for not being in church and doing the Lords
work, became too much we went back to church and turned our backs on our poly family.
The pressures to stay away from those we loved, the guilt of constantly
being drawn towards these couples we had such deep feeling for and the guilt we felt when
we had sex with them and even exchanged hugs, tore us and our marriage apart.
Now after a second failed marriage, [wife] and I, (both twice before
married), are making a wonderful life together, one based on openness and truth and
honesty, and open to polyfidelity and the concepts of responsible non-monogamy.
[Wife] was realized this since meeting me, and has started to change her
mind about some of the teachings of her past (Catholic). She suddenly wants to meet
Liberated Christians in our area (Austin, Dallas or Houston, Texas) and explore the
possibility of opening our hearts to others.
Dave's comments: If interested in this couple's E-mail address contact
Liberated Christians. We have connected them with John Hillman (the pastor who wrote the
Hedonism article a few issues ago).
The information you have sent us has been so refreshing and welcome that
we have already started to translate it into Spanish so that we might share it with
like-minded close friends. Yes, in your next bulletin please mention we are here in Panama
City, Panama, for any passerby or close-by friends. You have our authorization to print
our postal address (Virgil & Mary, 6-4019 El Dorado, Panama City, Panama). We will be
honored to translate any of the articles into Spanish. My fiancee and I are Catholics and
congratulate you on our courage. We are confident this will be a better world, like God
intended it in the first place, if we all do what we feel is right and good to ourselves
and for others. No matter what we have been taught. Good luck and thanks for all good you
are bringing to many people's lives.
No, You Are Not Alone in Your Feelings Of Sexuality As God's Gift
Public post on internet alt.christnet.nudism, Subject: liberated
Christians, 13Aug 1996:
I have recently discovered the liberated Christian movement. What a joy for my wife and I to realize we are not alone in believing that God gave us sexuality as a means of expressing love, experiencing joy and pleasure, and not as a way to torture us with guilt and repression!
The liberated Christian movement has reexamined the scriptures in the
original languages and cultural context and provides insight into how the faith was
hijacked by sex-phobic hypocrites...here's the good news: responsible, open non-monogamy,
premarital sex, nudity, etc. are NOT SINFUL. Love is the only law. Let's reclaim the
We have also exchanged E-mail with both spouses of this couple who are
sending our material to anyone interested. They are also interested in communications with
other couples and she says:
"We are so glad you guys are doing this work, as it has been very
difficult dealing with our lifestyle in a small (Canadian) town. We will be very pleased
to have correspondence from any of your members. We are still working on how to manage our
"playing" with that of family, children, friends, etc. and always having to
think about what people will think or say about us. (Husband) says I am expecting the
"villagers with pitchforks and torches" on our front lawn, like some
Frankenstein movie, but even he agrees that we are in a kind of fishbowl, living in such a
You talked about women being less than enthusiastic participants in the
extramarital fun, I just want to say that I have been, if anything, the instigator in our
relationship, encouraging rather than avoiding new experiences. Of course, I enjoy the
extra woman in our bed as much as (husband) does, and I find these threesomes to be
especially satisfying because (husband) is a cuddler, and we seem to attract cuddly gals!
It's really as much about sharing the incredible warmth and closeness we
enjoy together than it is about sex, and we do seem to have a good effect of people's
lives who we become intimate with. They seem to have better luck at love as the result!
We certainly feel more comfortable in our relationship with God since
studying your material, and since we stopped attending church, ironically. We still worry
about how other Christian friends would react if they really knew us, but I guess that
should really be their concern, not ours. (Husband) worries that the CMA (Christian
Motorcycle Association) would ask him to turn in his colours...
Thanks again.... (Husband) says he sees other people talking about these
ideas on the 'net all the time, and that freer Christians thought will spread more rapidly
because of the 'net.
Note: They are especially interested in corresponding with any other
Christian Motorcycle Assn members that embrace the Liberated Christians philosophy. They
need to be somewhat discrete, but contact us for their E-mail address if you wish to
Update note from above couple October 12, 1996:
"hi Dave... just wanted to write you a quick note to let you know how
we have been doing.
Your incredible ministry continues to have a very positive effect in our
lives... thank you again!!! we have been sharing your ideas and material with Christian
and non-Christian friends alike, gradually becoming more courageous in talking to people
about our beliefs... and the response has been very positive.
One recent breakthrough was a long discussion we had with the president of
our local Christian Motorcycle Association, with whom we really wanted to establish some
openness, not wanting to be involved in the group without them, or at least the leadership
really understanding our perspective on the faith... he was very positive and
supportive... what a great blessing!!!!
Thanks SO MUCH for introducing us to John and Nancy from California... we
have been carrying on a delightful (and quite spicy!!) correspondence with them... they
seem to be enjoying the contact as well, although they are not as isolated from other
sex-positive people as we are.
We have become much freer and more secure in our lifestyle choices since
we began this journey...and I have been cruising the newsgroups looking for people asking
the same questions I was asking, then offering them some answers... always in the form of
my own opinions, backed up with an offer to provide insightful material (our intro
material) if they request it.
I really feel that this has become a ministry for us, both on the net and
in our personal contact with people... already we have seen people whose discomfort over
sexual issues was keeping them from seeking God suddenly realize that He loves them and
wants them to be happy and free.
Thanks again for your dedication to this ministry... oh.. almost forgot..
did you happen to see the article in last months Cosmopolitan? They have a feature called
"on my mind" which is a kind of freelance opinion feature, and there was a great
article called "would Christ have joined the Jesus coalition?" ... this was
really excellent and proved that a new, freer and more loving Christianity is rapidly
expanding into the mainstream.. the work you and other are doing is going to change the
faith... I can feel it... God bless you
Sex No Longer Dirty For A Christian Young Women From Holland
A public Internet Post:
When everyone reacted so positively on my post about orgasms as religious
experiences, I've been doing some serious thinking and praying. Many Christians agree that
in Christianity sex has been considered dirty and sinful, but that this is wrong.
Sometimes the view of sexuality as something sinful was based on mistranslations of the
Scriptures (I won't go into that, but who's interested in more information can E-mail me
personally) and sometimes the old-fashioned view of Augustine (a doctor of the church) is
still preached: sex is only good for procreation.
I was taught to believe that sex was something disgusting, but very early
in life I discovered my body, just like every girl does. I became increasingly aware of my
own sexuality and of male bodies. My puritan mother wanted nothing to do with sex, so I
had to hide my own feelings, being able only to explore my body in the privacy of the
bathroom or in bed. But looking back on my childhood experiences I now realize they were
not only my first sexual experiences, but religious, too. I was taught to feel guilty of
masturbation, but I had never felt closer to God than in those private moments right after
my orgasm. I said childish prayers right before and after masturbating.
My attitude changed when I became engaged to a boy from church. I was only
eighteen years old (I'm now twenty-four years of age) and completely inexperienced. In my
home-country, Hungary, early engagement is very common and we were expected to marry after
our graduation from secondary school. Ferenc, my fiance, was a nice looking boy from a
respectable family and his parents had succeeded in setting up a prospering business
despite communism. Everything looked great, but I was terrified by his sexual behaviour:
after our engagement he told me it was okay if we had sex, but I said I wanted to wait. He
practically forced himself upon me, but I managed to get away. After that he did not want
to have intercourse, but he forced me to make him come with the help of my hand and later
my mouth. I experienced nothing at all and I guessed that sexuality was only for men, not
women. His erect cock frightened and disgusted me. I felt dirty.
Now I realize this was not because I thought it was sinful or anything
like that, but because he showed no interest in my pleasure. When touching me, he touched
me in a rough way. I broke up with him after he slapped me in the face when I did not let
him come in my mouth. For a year the entire male sex was disgusting for me. I paid no
attention to boys at all, lived like a nun in every respect. I worked in a hotel in
Amsterdam for a while and in the bus back to Budapest I met a fine young man. When I got
to know him I noticed how eager he was to please me. He touched me with a tender, loving
touch, and my pleasure was double pleasure for him. He did not rush me into having sex,
although I 'gave myself to him' almost immediately, long before marriage was even
discussed. In my mind I married him the moment I laid eyes on him, no priest, no rabbi,
just him and me. Before making love, we both prayed in our own mother-tongues, while
touching each other. While he ran his fingers through my hair, he praised the Lord for
creating me, and that, however childish it may sound, made me cry. He was a gift from God
for me, but he thought I was a gift from God for him. It was both, in our experience. For
the first time since my very early childhood I felt no guilt for being excited, for
feeling the desire to be touched, held and entered. I thought I would never experience a
thing like that. I thought I would never touch an erect cock with my hands, let alone my
lips, after Ferenc, but when I touched the boy whom I considered to be my husband already,
I completely forgot all about my bad experiences. Taking a penis in my mouth was not
something unspeakably disgusting to me anymore, but a blessing, since he had made me feel
how it is when lips touch my vagina. Before he came he asked permission to come in my
mouth and I was so moved, since the last time I had done this I had been slapped in the
face for not letting the man come in my mouth. When I felt him come, I felt a Divine
Presence in my life, I felt he had given me a gift.
I talked with him about God and His Plan for all of us and he showed me
there was so much pleasure in sex that it must be part, and an important part too, of
God's Plan. After that, my excitement has known no bounds and I've even masturbated in
front of him, something I thought I would never do.
After this I have been praying often for better and deeper experiences and
God has provided. We are not only spiritually, but legally married now, too. I felt a long
time that I had to share this and I know many Christians will be offended by my language,
but I will ignore or try to ignore the flames and hope there is a girl out there, reading
this, wondering why she has never experienced God in her sexuality and why she feels so
guilty. Anyone who wants to is free to E-mail me personally again
<A.Zwagerman@inter.NL.net> and I will pray for everyone, even the people who send
flames, for there is a wonderful thing inside all of us which can bring us so much closer
to God. He wants to have a relationship with all of you, also through our bodies.
Bill's Response to above:
"Your story is indeed a remarkable and beautiful one to read and reveals so clearly how God has given us the gift of our sexuality and wishes us to enjoy it fully and to honor him as we do." In addition Bill has shared more with Alicia, who enthusiastically gave us permission to publish her letter, including her E-mail address.
Another Christian Who Thought They Were Alone
You are a Godsend to me...literally! My wife and I are believers...We definitely cannot fit in with conventional Christian churches, because we are too free..she is bi and we both love amorous adventures... We don't believe it is a sin in our lifestyle, or that God meant for us to suppress the exuberant, joyful and mutually satisfying sexuality He gave us...please give us more information. We need to be validated and know we are not alone in this view of God and religion. Thanks.
Honestly Helped Another Marriage After Reading Our Newsletter
After 10 years and four children, a job layoff and my husband going back
to school, we have lost a lot of intimacy...if we ever really had any. My husband has had
a "closet" interest in swinging for long time, which I had to find out the hard
way. He didn't feel he could be open with me about it due a lot I suppose to my
insecurities at the time, so he kept the magazines hid and the ad he clipped from the
paper in his wallet for a long time before I found it looking for something else one day.
Needless to say I was very hurt and felt very inadequate. We separated a short time
later...got back together...and things have been on a roller coaster ride ever since. Me
practically begging for attention and time away from the kids with him. I am at the point
where I am thinking about an affair to just try and get the affection and intimacy I am
lacking. That goes against what I have been taught about marriage in the Christian sense,
but feel I will go nuts and make life hell for all of us if I or someone doesn't do
After I read your newsletter, I felt a sense of peace and HOPE I haven't
felt in a long time. I was actually able to talk rationally to him and we had the first
effective conversation I feel we have had in a long time, due mainly to talking about
swinging. I spoke of the fears I still have to a point about how, me, being referred to in
some circles as a Big Beautiful Woman would be attractive enough to someone else, what if
we weren't satisfied with just each other anymore, what if I was still too jealous to
handle it. I told him what I liked about your newsletter is that you also promote intimacy
and caring relationships as well as swinging. He admitted himself for once that he was
lacking in knowing how to give intimacy.
Dave's Note: This is a very common situation. We hear all the time about
the lack of honest communications. We've had ongoing correspondence with this couple and
am happy to report they have had some very good experiences exploring the Lifestyle with
another couple. Recently she says, "It has made a difference in our relationship with
each other! I'm even getting confident enough to be considering asking a woman friend
(husband) use to work with if she might be interested in exploring with us. (Husband) said
he would like to be with her so I'm trying to find the right words to tell and ask her at
the same time! I'm even getting excited at the prospect if she consents!" Quite a
difference from before she found our newsletter and started honest communications which
has greatly improved their overall relationships as well as their sexual fulfillment.
Another Natural Sex Report
In prior newsletters we did extensive reporting on our Natural Sex for Men
and Women survey of readers that tried the product. Here is an update from a previous
report we published:
A few months ago I shared my personal results with Natural Sex. At that
time I had tried taking two a day, and than various "overdoses" over the course
of a month or so with no really noticeable effect. I continued taking at least one a day
however, sometimes two, and I can say that now after about four months I can report
Dave's Note: For some men it seems to take much longer than for others to
get the effect of more free testosterone in the system.
So California "Lifestyle Friendly" Therapist Available
A Lifestyle friendly therapist has written Liberated Christians, offering to write articles as well as being available to those individuals seeking assistance in their relationships, but who do not want to have to deal with the hasty conclusion, by a therapist, that their "alternative" lifestyle is the reason for all their problems. Due to his community activities, he prefers to be somewhat discrete. But if you are interested in a professional therapist, contact Liberated Christians and we will give you his phone number. He has extensive experience as a licensed Marriage, Family and Child Counselor and has a private practice in Southern California. In addition, he is a university professor of psychology and human development and a leader in a traditional Christian Church. One of his many interests is encouraging formation of healthy groups as opposed to just any groups. We look forward to his sharing some ideas with us in the future. Perhaps, we can have him as a guest speaker sometime for our Phoenix Fellowship Group.
On the Humorous Side
But Often With Deeper Meaning
Why Fall, Why Not Stand In Love?
"I wonder why it's called 'falling in love' instead of 'standing in love'? Something about control and balance? Is the task, then, to move from falling to standing? i.e. conscious creation as suggested?" Source: Brett Hill (Loving More) on firstname.lastname@example.org
The Age of Consent If A Virgin?
The age of consent in Mississippi, is 18, but "If the female is over 12, the statute applies only to virgins." The interesting question is whose word are they going to take whether the girl was a virgin? Maybe they'll demand the girl show them the first bloody sheet so they can carbon date it or something.....
Man's Interest In G-Spot & Clitoris
If a man is interested in your G-spot to the exclusion of your clitoris, try being interested in his prostate to the exclusion of his penis.
1000 Erect Wooden Penises For Sale
Regina, Canada (Reuter) - Saskatchewan is trying to sell 1,000 erect wooden penises meant for use in sex education classes, the Canadian Press reported.
The province's educational department removed the penises, officially
called "supplementary demonstrators", from the grade nine health curriculum
after teachers complained they were inappropriate.
The wooden organs were intended to be used to teach 13- and 14- year olds
the proper way to use a condom.
The department is hoping to return the offending teaching aids, worth
about $2,200, to the supplier or sell them to health or other educational agencies. So far
46 have been sold.
Life... It's sexually transmitted, and always fatal.
Dave, Please sign me up (for newsletter) and send me any back issues
you can easily get your mouse on!
Few Homosexual Problems compared to heterosexual
"The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and three hundred sixty-two admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that they need more supervision." - Lynne Lavner
God put me on earth to accomplish a certain number of things. Right now
I am so far behind, I will never die.
The Masturbating Monkey
Once I was in Houston, TX, and visited the zoo. There was this one monkey who had quite a crowd around his cage. He had this little act he would practice over and over to the amusement of the crowd. He would masturbate a couple of times, then stop and look around at the crowd with this guilty look on his face, then spank his hand, then look around to make sure everybody was watching, then repeat the same thing all over again. I'm not kidding, it really happened. Some Zoo worker probably taught him that little trick. Sure hope he wasn't imitating somebody in the crowd.
India's Roadside Romeos To Be Caged
Policewomen in parts of India will now wear sexy clothes and indulge in amorous acts and gestures to attract Eve teasers. Once in the trap of these policewomen decoys, the roadside Romeos will be paraded around the city in mobile cages, the Times of India newspaper reported.
In an effort to curb the growing menace of Eve teasing, the police have
positioned several mobile cages on the main roads. The words "Romeo Cages" are
boldly painted on the cages pulled by big trucks hired by the police as a psychological
deterrent. In most Indian cities, women are verbally and physically harassed by
youngsters. The situation is the worst in the buses and trains.
Thailand Leader In Penis Reattachments
BANGKOK, July 17 (Reuter) - Thailand is becoming a world leader in a particular area of microsurgery thanks to some fiery members of its female population. Reattaching the penises of wayward men, sliced off by their jealous wives, is becoming a particular Thai skill in the operating theatre, Surasak Maungsombat, a senior surgeon at Bangkok's Siriraj Hospital, told Reuters. ``It's due to the number of cases we get. I've heard of one in Taiwan, one case in Australia, one in Japan in 1976. Our team here has had 30 cases since 1978,'' Surasak said. All but one of his 30 patients had their organs cut off by enraged wives, he said. ``It seems that some Thai women just can't tolerate extra- marital affairs and do this, which is different from women elsewhere who would just divorce their unfaithful husbands,'' he said. Ideally the patient and his severed penis should be brought to the operating theatre within six hours of it being cut off but, if properly frozen, a severed penis could still be re-attached a day after the event. Surasak said the key to success was re-attaching the main blood vessels which ensure the organ functions properly. One of his happy patients claimed to have fathered two children after his penis was re-attached, he said. In 1994 in the United States manicurist Lorena Bobbit severed her husband's organ in retaliation for his alleged sexual assaults on her. The penis was re-attached.
Basics of Male Sexual Stimulation -
As Nature intended - Arousal & Erection
Arousal is controlled by the brain and based on genetics and other factors different stimulus arouses different people. We have no choice in what is arousing to us.
In a male, if he sees or reads something that excites him sexually, the
messages are transmitted to the portion of the brain that controls sexual response.
Initially this does not create an erection but an electrical impulse is transmitted to the
tiny cowpers glands, located along the sides of the urethra. These glands produce a few
drops of the clear slippery fluid that forms at the tip of the penis. The function of this
fluid is to act as a lubricant for sexual intercourse. It's pH level is high (perhaps to
decrease the acidity of the vagina increasing likelihood of sperm survival), and its very
slippery (to help enter the vagina).
At this early stage or arousal the man suddenly feels very good,
psychologically as the brain is flooded with natural chemicals (endorphins) that are very
enjoyable and make the man want to continue to sexual arousal. The reason pornography
sells well and strip dancers are so enjoyed by men is because it often elicits this
response of physiological well-being. In gay men, the arousal mechanism works the same,
but the object of sexual attraction is another man.
Erection occurs after a period or arousal. In young men it may be often
very soon after initial arousal and without any need for manual stimulation of the penis.
As men age, arousal can continue indefinitely without erection which may need additional
manual help. Erection occurs when the spongy tissues of the penis are engorged with blood.
There is one large primary artery bringing blood into the penis, and several smaller veins
that drain blood out of the penis. When not sexually stimulated there is a balance of
blood flow in and out and the penis is flaccid. However, when stimulated, the artery
becomes wide open, the heart rate and blood pressure increase and more blood is pumped
into the penis. At the same time, valves in the veins controlling the outflow are squeezed
shut so the penis enlarges. As men age, sludge builds up in the artery and blood inflow
slows. Smoking makes this worse and alcohol decreases the ability of the nervous system to
close off the valves in the veins. Keeping physically fit is just as beneficial to ones
sexual heath as it is for good heart, lungs and other body organs.
Learning how to lengthen the arousal and erection period while delaying
orgasm is an important part of maximizing sexual pleasure. As the erection proceeds, the
physical sensations become increasingly more and more exciting, and the psychological
pressure to ejaculate becomes more and more intense. The ideal is to keep the stimulation
just below the level required to ejaculate while learning to deal with the increasing
psychological pressure to ejaculate. Like driving a racing car closer and closer to the
wall at ever higher speeds, the psychological pleasure becomes more and more intense, the
longer the arousal can be maintained without ejaculation, but the greater the enjoyment
for the man. Furthermore, the longer ejaculation can be delayed, the more pleasure can be
shared with the woman, who usually requires a much longer period to become fully aroused.
A woman can also remain sexually stimulated and enjoy sexual pleasure far longer than the
man and often can have multiple orgasms without the refractory period that most men
require after ejaculation.
Frequent ejaculation is needed for healthy sexual function. In young men
ejaculation typically occurs at least once a day either by having sex or masturbation. As
we age, frequency becomes less but varies greatly. If you are not properly using your
sexual organs nature provides a last resort - wet dreams. This is the body's natural way
of keeping healthy if you don't exercise your sex organs as nature intended. Lack of
frequent ejaculation can lead to prostate blockage and other problems. Our sexual organs
are designed for use and enjoyment, not to be considered shameful or to produce guilt when
we express our natural sexual responses.
While this discussion involves male sexuality, for women the mechanicsare
slightly different but the healthy benefits and good feelings are similar. We have
discussed female sexuality in detail in other articles, including G-spot orgasms etc.
Some of the above information is from a great article "Understanding
Male Sexuality" which is found on the web whose address I have lost!
Being Christians and Active Lifestyle
by Cathy & Kent
Though it's an apparent if not glaring contradiction to many of our
friends and acquaintances both in the lifestyle and outside of it, we genuinely and
sincerely consider ourselves large "C" Christians. This is despite our active
involvement in the swinging lifestyle.
In fact, swinging activities, in our mind, bring us much closer to who and
what we consider our God to be. The fact that we both at an early age accepted Jesus
Christ as our personal Lord and Savior did not mean we accepted other peoples' concept of
what the Holy Trinity was, nor did we, nor do we, accept other self-labeled Christians'
prejudices, personal hatreds and overbearing dislikes against other human beings simply
because of class, race or sexual orientation and so forth, especially under the guise of
religious differences. To us, to be a Christian is to love and accept all people for whom
and what they are and as they are. Salvation, which can only come from divine love, must
be precipitated by a unilateral acceptance of one's self for one's self, i.e. you must
forgive yourself and accept yourself for who you truly are. This must occur before the
vessel of your soul is ready to accept love and forgiveness.
Swinging to us is an expression of that love we feel for everyone. It is
merely a physical expression of an existing emotional attachment or bond. There's no
question of "adultery" in our minds since we feel that sin is rooted in
betrayal, betrayal of one's God, one's society, one's family or one's mate. As long as
there's no betrayal, there can be no sin. Love is expressed by truth. If something is
rooted in truth it must be good. Betrayal, the root of all sin, is always an expression of
non-truth and lies. The hurt of adultery does not come from the manifestation of love and
joy as portrayed by the physical act of making love with someone else's mate, but rather
from the betrayal of telling lies to one's mate in order to engage in adulterous behavior.
As long as their is mutual agreement, knowledge, disclosure and constant communication in
consensual non-monagamous activities, there is no betrayal of trust and therefore no sin.
Our personal relationship and marriage is based on unconditional love,
acceptance and truth in all things. It is faith and commitment to our God and each other.
We usually don't mention our faith but we feel a need to let the lifestyle community know
that there are couples heavily involved in this lifestyle who are Christians. We and they
are without self-contradiction or self-delusion because swinging is an expression of
mutual faith and love.
Some Women Experience PAIN With G spot Stimulation
From a public post on alt.sex.wizards:
I am very involved in support group activity with two groups trying to
meet the very profound needs of people with a painful syndrome called Interstitial
Cystitis and it's "sister" Vulvodynia (an elegant Greek word for vulvar pain).
Both conditions have a rather full spectrum of symptoms but both also are
very often manifested by something called "urethral syndrome". It is a
"waste basket" diagnosis in some medical textbooks and far too often women have
been told they are in pain there mostly because they are essentially neurotic or have
something like Munchausen's Syndrome. FINALLY, a paper was published this last May '96 in
the Journal of Western Medicine suggesting that the female Urethral Syndrome is really a
case of your garden variety prostatitis for women. The paraurethral glands that surround
the urethra are positioned just posterior and on both sides of the urethra and the first
symptomatic clue the authors (Dr. Ruben Gittes -- a BIG name in urologic research, and Dr.
Robert M. Nakemure) a health provider should twick to is pain on the anterior wall of the
vagina. BTW, these glands are known or certainly broadly suspected to
"ejaculate" upon orgasm and function as mild lubricators for the urethra at all
other times. They can be measured for PSA just like those fairly new tests conducted on
men to evaluate for cancer. In time, if these glands stay infected for a long time by as
yet undetermined bugs (culturing is apparently difficult), they can get clogged up and
chronically inflamed causing much pain in the whole pudendal area.
On the other hand, in a healthy woman, they in all likelihood are part of
the pleasurable response similarly noted by men in the region of their own prostates --
hence the "G" spot. It's there, it exists and yes, talk to your partner and see
if it works for her. If she has pain there, by all means she should get to a physician and
have this other thing evaluated. Be mindful that she/he might not be familiar with it and
fall back on the old "neurotic" diagnosis.
Another Woman Describes
PLEASURE From Ejaculation
From a discussion on Society for Human Sexuality mailing list on Female Ejaculation:
For me, the orgasms that I ejaculate with are always more intense, and
almost an altered state. And as seems to be the case with (other women) , it is also true
for me that it takes a long-time, but for me it usually takes several orgasms to build up
to it and it is always (to date anyway) associated with a g-spot orgasm. Or I should say a
series of them, or even coming to the peak several times first and then coming, and then
by about the third (?) time actually coming it will be this amazingly wonderful orgasm.
Another woman said:
One women was an "occasional ejaculator". She's the best reason
I have to believe that the ejaculate is not simply urine. The times when she would
noticeably ejaculate were after long periods of heightened arousal without orgasm. Most of
the time she would cum quickly and frequently, but once in a while we would both delight
in having me torment her orally, digitally and sometimes with fisting as well. If she
could hold off for long enough (45 minutes or more) she would have an incredibly intense
orgasm accompanied by ejaculation. The fluid issued was watery, but thicker than urine and
had very little similarity in smell and taste to urine (shrugs).
The Mixed Problem of Overweight & Sexual Shame
Two Different Ways Of Dealing With Jealousy
Another woman replies:
I have a great system for dealing with jealousy. I don't feel it. I truly
put the other persons desires first in my heart and if I see them happy, in any situation
that brings them joy... I am happy. I do not perceive myself as clutching on to them so I
do not feel insecure about losing them. My posture is one of offerings and I feel joy in
A third woman replies:
I'm happy for you, but I can't turn anger and fear into joy, so that
method of "dealing" with jealousy doesn't work for me. I deal with jealousy by
talking about it in detail with my partner whenever it arises.
Many People Can't Enjoy Smoke Filled Clubs
Last weekend my husband and I attended our first "social" at a
local swing club. We were encouraged to attend the afternoon get acquainted session as
well as the new couples orientation prior to the social.
Went for the get acquainted session and found that the majority of couples
in attendance smoked. Both my husband and I are avid non-smokers. There were two air
cleaners in the room and so we hoped it wouldn't get too nasty. Our hopes were not
We took a 45 minute break before the orientation (held in the same area)
to get a breath of fresh air.
I barely made it through the orientation because of the smoke and was
completely unable to attend the social because of a raging headache. My husband went to it
for an hour or so. He reported back that the air was practically blue with smoke.
We really do not think we can tolerate this on any kind of regular basis.
Have others run into this problem? And, if so, how have they handled it?
The people we met were very nice and it was enjoyable to converse with
them, but both my husband and I agree that the smoke-filled atmosphere will be a definite
deterrent to us.
Are there such things as smoke-free swing clubs? How do you suggest we
handle this? - From Gasping in the Heartland
Dave's comments: Any suggestions from readers, other than wearing an
oxygen mask that would get in the way of oral sex!
Those No Condom Catholics Again
Dave's comments: It seems incomprehensible that responsible people would
take this approach to AIDS in Africa. But Catholic dogma holds that the use of
contraception is immoral. But as Russell said (Society for Human Sexuality mailing list
[email@example.com] Sept. 2, 1996): "Lets face it. The Catholic white male clergy
who set dogmatic rules such as 'the use of contraception is forbidden' basically lead
cushy, luxurious lives, and they haven't exactly benefited from the sort of well-rounded
education which might help them understand that there are 5 billion people on the planet,
and that many of them are living in misery due to (overpopulation). The Catholic Church
DOES, in fact, gain political and financial power by banning contraception, as offspring
of parents of one religion tend to follow that religion, and banning contraception for
Catholics means that Catholics will have more offspring. Fortunately, although I grew up
Catholic, I'm now a Pagan, and its no longer my duty to defend excrement like this."
Bill's comments: In some African countries, including Uganda which I have
visited, Protestant clergy are actively involved in promoting HIV protection, including
the use of condoms.
And Those Presbyterians For "Fidelity and Chastity"
The Right Time, The Right Way, The Right Spirit was the theme of "A
Gathering of Presbyterians" held September 16-17 near Chicago. Almost 500
Presbyterians came to the gathering which was to communicate to ministers and elders and
help them promote the new "fidelity and chastity" amendment passed by the
General Assembly which requires the approval of a majority of the Presbyteries before
becoming part of the "Book of Order".
The amendment reads: "Those who are called to office in the church
are to lead a life in obedience to Scripture and in conformity to the historic
confessional standards of the church. Among these standards is the requirement to live
either in fidelity within the covenant of marriage of a man and a woman, or chastity in
singleness. Persons refusing to repent of any self-acknowledged practice which the
confessions call sin shall not be ordained and/or installed as deacons, elders, or
ministers of the Word and Sacrament."
The article continues, "In a seminar to help participants develop
strategies for passing the amendment in their presbyteries it was interesting that at
least two presbyteries are specifically forbidding the use of Scripture when the amendment
is debated on the floor. The rationale being given is that it is a polity matter."
(matters of Church government but not specifically doctrinal issues).
Some additional comments by Bill: As a sometime Presbyterian I was
interested to see what the "historic confessional standards of the church"
referred to in this amendment say about fidelity and chastity. Persons unfamiliar with
confessional churches should bear in mind that for people in such churches who feel that
they take both the Bible and confessions seriously, a reference to the confessions
INCLUDES the "Scripture Proofs" which are given to support any statement of the
confession. Thus, if the confessions teach that chastity and fidelity are scriptural
matters, this ranks the matter higher than one of church polity, i.e. simply a matter of
practical church government or policy.
Having checked the Westminster Confession and the Larger Catechism, it
seems to me that those in this debate who hold that these issues are only matters of
church polity are incorrect--SO FAR AS THESE DOCTRINAL STANDARDS ARE CONCERNED.
Interestingly the Confession does not directly PROHIBIT adultery and fornication in its
section on marriage, referring to them only as grounds for divorce. The Catechism, on the
other hand, lists adultery and fornication (along with a laundry list of other
sexually-related vices) as prohibited in the Seventh Commandment. The scriptural support
given ranges all the way through the Old and New Testaments. This approach reflects a view
of biblical theology which understands all "moral" teaching of the Bible as
deriving from and consistent with the Ten Commandments.
Why do I bother with all this commentary? Simply to say that while in many
ways I respect the confessions (written hundreds of years ago) as products of sincere men
who were trying their best to interpret the Bible correctly, yet in many cases their
methodology was flawed. These flaws have tended to preserve in stone erroneous
interpretations of scripture for following generations.
For example, we at Liberated Christians hold that the Old Testament law,
including the Ten Commandments, was fulfilled in the life of Jesus and that those who
follow him are to follow the Law of Love which incorporates the essence of obedience to
all that God wills for man. Unfortunately, those who slavishly follow the confessions
actually find themselves following and promoting minute legalisms which become no less
burdensome than the laws of the Pharisees which Jesus condemned.
As for the matter of "chastity and fidelity," I personally hold
that the seventh commandment speaks only of ADULTERY (fidelity), not of FORNICATION
(chastity), which was an entirely different matter in Old Testament times. In addition, we
hold that the Old Testament view of adultery was not fundamentally a problem of HAVING
SEXUAL INTERCOURSE, but a matter of STEALING A MAN'S PROPERTY. Thus, in modern polyamory
or swinging, the CONSENSUAL SHARING of one's primary partner does not constitute adultery
and is not sinful.
This issue illustrates, among other things, the problem of hanging on to
ancient biblical interpretations without seriously considering the cultural content in
which they were originally given..
Brazil Survey: Men Over 60 Are Not Over Sex
Have We Forgotten How To Make Love?
For many couples lovemaking today is a compromise, the acceptance of the
best that can be hoped for or done in the circumstances. Most women's experience of
lovemaking contains disappointment. Most men's experience consists of excitement at the
prospect of ejaculation.
Often more frustration is created than love, and often frustration
isolates, and lovemaking gradually pushes the partners apart. They get sexually tired of
each other and the magic vanishes. Lovemaking becomes habitual, a duty, or an emotional
Since time began, woman has been manipulated and encouraged to feel that
the finest expression of her love is to please her man sexually. The truth is the other
way around. The finest expression of love is for man to delight her sexually....
The man who has developed sexual expertise still does not know how to make
this divine love. Heightened sensations and orgasms are gratifying, but they are not the
love that woman craves. The woman he makes love to, he satisfies like a good meal; but
soon she hungers again and eventually despises her appetite or herself because she knows
she is not being loved. For woman, the fulfillment of her love is to take into her
everything he can give, while in return offering up every bit of herself in sweet,
complete surrender to love.
The saints tell us to love everyone. Did a saint ever tell you how to make
love, which is the origin of all love on Earth? Let's be honest. We would all like to love
everyone. But could we please just start with our mate?...
You start to love by making love, which is what you and everyone else on
Earth wants to do most anyway. For man and woman to make love beautifully requires each to
introduce a fundamental change. After you have learned to make true physical love in this
entirely new way, you will then discover that you have found how to love your fellow man,
how to love your enemies, how to love God, and how to love yourself....
To bring love into your sexual life, you are going to need a lot of new
energy. That energy starts with honesty. Living it or putting it into practice is, of
course, what really counts. And that's hard. Nevertheless, if you have the courage, the
self honesty, and want your freedom - your love - you can make it happen.
These are ideas and excerpts from a 15,000 word document, which includes
practical suggestions for changing the way man and woman are Making Love. To order the
complete 48-page booklet entitled Making Love, send cash, check, or money order made out
to PEP for $5, (outside the U.S., send US $8) postage and handling included, to: PEP 6339
E. Greenway Suites 102-103 Scottsdale, AZ 85254 They welcome any comments you might have
as well. E-mail to: firstname.lastname@example.org.
Dave's Note: I thought some of the ideas in the summary were very good but
have omitted others that I didn't totally agree with. The full publication may be of
interest to some, but I don't have it and any specific details beyond what we reported
above do not necessarily represent the views of Liberated Christians, its founders or
Fellowship Group members.
More Than You Might Have Wanted To Know About Clothespins
Wood versus plastic:
Wooden clothespins are a bit kinder and have less tendency to abrade, thus
I would suggest starting with them. Plastic clothespins tend to have much smaller ribbed
gripping surfaces, and a 'feel' much stronger than the equivalent wooden ones. Extremely
small plastic clothespins are very nasty indeed, and many may be used in the same area for
Wooden clothespins are available in several qualities, with the older,
thicker ones being a bit better IMHO, and the thin ones more likely to splinter or have
sharp edges. As one may purchase 50 of these for perhaps $4 American, these rank among
least expensive of toys, and among the most versatile. Almost anything one may do with
fingertip squeezing may be done with clothespins, and several things that cannot be
accomplished with one's fingers may easily be done with these tiny household beauties. Of
course, this does leave your hands free for other activities....
Clamping Tightness "too hard!", "too soft!",
Unmodified, most wooden clothespins of quality grip with between 4 and 6
pounds of pressure over an area of 3/16 X 1/2 inches. This is too much for some, and not
enough for others. The grip is best increased by wrapping the clamping end with elastic
bands, and decreased in several ways. The simplest is by weakening the springs by clamping
something that requires the clothespin to be open to its limit for several days. This will
reduce the clamping pressure by several pounds, dependent on the initial strength of the
spring, the width of the opening, and the length of time one allows for stretching.
Carefully pulling the jaws wider than they would normally travel will stretch the spring
quickly, but this is harder to control. Wrapping elastic bands around the legs of the
clothespin will resist the tension of the spring and weaken the clamping force without
permanently weakening the spring.
If you are willing to spend a bit more time, drill straight through both
legs of the clothespin legs about one third from the end and thread a bolt through the
holes, tightening a wing nut on the bolt will allow for wonderfully precise changes in
clamping pressure, since the bolt-nut combination adjustably limits the travel of the
legs. It is often best to drill a larger hole or even a slot in one leg for ease of
adjustment. This requires perhaps 2 minutes per clothespin and is well worth the time, as
the pressure may be slowly increased as her ability to enjoy the sensation improves.
Weights may be hung off of the clothespin as well by hooks or cords attached to such holes
Standard Techniques - suggestions for beginning and advancing:
One classical place to begin with clothespins is the nipple, but there are
many possible variations to this alone. The first grip recommended most often is with the
clothespin pointing straight onto the nipple, not from the side, gripping the base of the
nipple, not the tip, and perhaps a bit of areola as well. This does not have the same sort
of 'bite' as grasping the nipple alone may, and often does wonderful things for
sensitivity without causing severe pain. It is best to start with a rather weak clamping
pressure and work upwards, and if you are just beginning, try not to leave the pins on for
too long (start with what she can endure, and eventually work up to perhaps twenty
minutes. I prefer not to leave them on longer than this). The longer the clamping time,
the more fierce the sensation caused by removing the pressure. The increased sensitivity
afterwards may last from minutes to many hours, depending on the person, the clamping
force and time; and several things might be done in this period to use that sensitivity to
advantage (beating with the proverbial 'wet noodle' or even a featherduster is quite
effective). Ice applied immediately after removing the clothespin may reduce the length
and severity of the sensation if that is desired.
You might try putting the clothespin on sideways, with the nipple centered
in the hole in the clamping area. If you do this far enough back on the nipple base or
areola, the tip of a large nipple will remain exposed for other things, such as ice,
nibbling, or smaller clips and clamps.
You might try clamping the nipple only, or work gradually out from the
areola as her ability to enjoy more increases. Tapping or lightly brushing the tips of
attached clothespins is effective, and a light vibrator may also be used if taped to the
legs of the clothespin.
One simple device works nicely for both nipples at once on all but the
smallest female breasts. Take two clothespins and glue the outsides of the legs together
with a slight overlap. Then use the clamping ends to grasp both nipples from the sides at
once. The pull will vary depending on breast size, but some will be present, thus causing
her to jiggle her breasts gently can be fun, and of course, this is often just the thing
to add to tickling. Size differences may require an additional short piece of wood to link
the pair together, length best found by experiment.
Several people have mentioned pulling on clothespins or clips with
strings, chains or cords. The nipple itself may also be encircled by a thin cord or
thread, I have used unwaxed dental floss to good effect. Avoid slipknots for the obvious
reason that they might tighten too far in use.
Pulling off a clothespin is more painful than squeezing the legs to remove
it gently, and is the basis for several devices below. Again, the longer one leaves them
attached, the stronger the result.
Other places you might wish to try:
Many areas of the body might do well with a bit of clamping either for
sensation or visual appeal. Other parts of the breast, and any portion of the torso and
limbs where one may gather a bit of skin come immediately to mind. In view of the tiny
expense, one might use many dozens at one time.
Specific classic variations include but are not limited to:
A row, circle, on the belly or back one or more on the labia or other
areas of 'wabbliebits' (tm-STella) the inner thigh or arm a belt of clothespins round the
waist small clothespins on the webbing of fingers and toes the earlobe (the dangling legs
of the clothespin brush the neck nicely) behind the knees and inside the elbows a circle
round the thighs as a reminder to keep them spread.
'Zippers' and other tailoring:
Drill a hole through one leg of at least one dozen clothespins, thread
them on a thong or cord, knotting them at small intervals, and you have created a zipper.
One derivation for the name will become obvious the first time one tugs swiftly on one end
of the cord and hears the sound made by the pins pulling off sensitive skin (there may be
other sounds as well). The spacing may vary, longer ones may be made, and double rows of
20 or so clothespins are common. The inside of the upper arm or thigh are rather
traditional for these, but most areas of the body are available, one of my own favorites
being the side of the body normally covered by the arms, after binding the arms over the
head. Ticklish and sensitive.
A 'tri-zipper' is my own name for three of these single zippers with one
end of each fastened to a central ring (a key ring will do, but try to find something a
bit larger). The ring is centered high on the belly, with the farthest pins attaching to
the nipples and 'wabbliebits' (tm-STella), perhaps with a bit of spiral towards the center
of each region, and the nearest ones fastening to the skin near the center. The look of
horrified anticipation as you grasp the ring and begin to pull slowly outwards, each pin
popping off in turn as the three zipper lines move towards the most sensitive areas is not
to be missed, while pulling faster often causes volumes of coloratura shrieking.
Another design I have not seen elsewhere I have dubbed the Reverse Garter,
'reverse' in the sense of pulling down rather than up. Two bands of non-stretch material
(webbing, fabric or leather will do) with buckles or other adjustable fasteners are put
high up around each thigh, perhaps five inches from the pubis, although this dimension
will vary. Sewn or riveted onto the band is a close (almost touching) row of four
clothespins on the inside of the leg, with the clamping ends pointing upwards. These are
first attached to the outer labia, then the band is adjusted to a position to gently
stretch the lips and tightened so as not to be pulled further up the thigh. Intriguing in
itself, and provides both more pull and an interesting display when she spreads her legs.
Delectable. (There are major sensation differences between the outer lips and more inner
tissues, grasping these areas with the same force is likely to cause considerably more
pain than anticipated.)
Modifying pins for more intense sensations:
The simplest method is increasing the clamping force with one or more
elastic bands round the clamping end, but there are several others.
Purchase some short 1/8th inch diameter brads or finish nails, and a drill
of the same diameter. Drill three holes through the clamping end of two clothespins. Sand,
grind, or file the ends of the brads to a smooth *ROUND* tip then push them through so
they protrude into the clamping area while the clothespin is held open 1/8th inch. Use a
drop of strong glue to hold the brads in place, and saw off the excess length from the
outside of the pins after the glue dries.
Exceedingly nasty, as the clamping force now concentrates primarily on
three small areas rather than the entire clamping area. Use this carefully, preferably
with a fully adjustable clothespin as above, and make quite sure by testing on yourself
first that the ends of the brads are NOT SHARP at all to avoid damage. Useful for those
seeking more than a 'regular' clothespin may provide.
Several less extreme variations on the idea above are possible, all based
on disassembling the clothespin, filing several grooves in the wooden clamping area, then
reassembling the clothespin. Grooves and blunt 'teeth' aid in preventing slippage, and
feel a bit more harsh than flat wood.
Removing perhaps one-half of the side of the clamping area with a saw or
rasp provides two benefits, the same clamping pressure will be applied over a smaller
area, and double the number of clothespin tips may fitted to the same bit of anatomy.
Remember to round the edges slightly with sandpaper to avoid splinters or other
A design for testing the clamping force of clothespins:
Tradition demands testing on the web of one's hand, this is well and good
for impromptu buying and to get a subjective feel for the actual sensation of a new
design, but lacks precision and repeatability, qualities dear to the heart of any
engineer. Some thinking and a bit of experimentation resulted in the following frame to
directly and accurately measure clamping force in clothespins. With minor modifications,
it serves to measure certain other sorts of spring-clamp pressure as well. I recognize the
source of error from measuring the force at the hole rather than the clamping area, but it
is a difference both trivial and consistent, and thus may be ignored for comparative
Select two boards longer than 8 inches, wider than 1 inch, and perhaps 1/4
inch thick, and place them together, lying flat on top of one another. Drill a hole
through both 5 inches or so from one end. Put a bolt through this hole, and thread a
wingnut on the bolt. Clamp the other end of the boards firmly to a table or bench, slide
one leg of the clothespin into the tapered space between the two boards, then tighten the
wingnut. This frame will hold the clothespin for testing. Once the pin is held firmly in
place, use a thin cord attached to a spring tension scale (I use an 'anglers scale',
accurate from 1 to 28 pounds, any 'pulling' scale with a hook will do), and pull downwards
against the clamping area until the clothespin opens. This measurement will vary from the
pull necessary to just open the jaws to a higher reading before the jaws reach their limit
of travel. As mentioned, the 'standard' clothespins I have tested fall somewhere in the
region of 4-6 pounds, stretching for several days may yield less than 3 pounds, and manual
stretching of the clothespin spring will swiftly reduce the pressure to 1 pounds or less.
If one has the time and interest, coding the various strength ranges of tested clothespins
for different tastes and applications is possible, either by color or by filing groove
patterns in the legs to select by touch. "Twenty of the red ones for a start, I am in
an evil mood tonight."
A reply to above from a woman on Society for Human Sexuality mailing list
"hmm..one thing that I go by, to see if it is something I want to make part of my sex-life is..TRY IT..so if I buy new clamps, I will try them on myself first...if they don't make my nipples come off...I keep them :).
With the clothespins...well, I thought the idea was a little weird and I
didn't know how to approach my SO about it...so I bought 50 clothespins. Once they sat in
my bedroom neatly packed in a box, curiosity took over...and I attached some to my
breasts...well...I think I ended up with about 30 and wished my SO was there...the pulling
off was ok..and they left those pretty red marks for the next hour or two. So trying
things out alone isn't bad...
After that night I just gave my SO the clamps and grinned...because I
couldn't wait any longer and wanted his loving and caring hands to attach them to my
sensitive skin. But I tried it alone first to see, if this is a kind of pain I can
Spectator Magazine San Francisco Fights Censorship and Seeks Your Support
I agree with many of the opinions expressed by editor Kat Sunlove who
believes it is important for Spectator to continue to be sold from newsracks on the street
in order to reach out to the broader society (not just those going to adult book stores)
with news and information about sexual freedom and the variety of legitimate sexual
expression and options available. For many years they have reached this audience by being
available at newsracks to attract the eye and the interest of the midly curious, the
sexually repressed, the confused. Spectator wants to spread the word about sexual freedom
and have access to the town square.
But the California legislature passed a law that criminalizes the sale
through machines of material deemed "harmful to minors". The worst part of the
law is the requirement for 24-hour adult supervision, i.e. guards, at newsracks containing
the material. This of course is totally impractical.
There have been a number of legal battles to date over the law. But
recently Spectator lost its argument before the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. On
September 11th, the three-judge ruled against Spectator. There are still other appeals
available, including to the U.S. Supreme Court as a First Amendment Free Speech issue, but
such an appeal would be very costly.
The intent of the law of course is to "protect" kids from
exposure to sexually related materials. Protecting by hiding healthy normal sexuality
makes it even more desirable for children. Our view of course is that if we were open with
children about sexuality we would have a much healthier society. But the religious right
in particular wants to be sure only one view of sex - the dirty until marriage view - is
the one kids are exposed to. This results in a culture full of tease and titillation but
with few skills about real sexual intimacy and fulfilling sexuality beyond just natural
thrusting sex. We encourage your support of Spectator and suggest you might wish to
subscribe by mail, regardless of your location, for the well-written sex articles even if
you have no interest in all the ads. Annual subscriptions are $34/year for a weekly paper!
For more information call 510-849-1615, write Spectator Magazine, PO Box 1984, Berkeley,
Abco first started marketing Sybian in 1987 and less than 1% have been
returned for repair. It is very well built and designed to last a long time!
About a year ago the motor and control board was updated allowing even
faster vibration. However, this is not recommended other than in short bursts, and from my
experience, the old motor generates plenty of vibration for most women. More may simply be
too intense. Remember men, we are trying to give the women pleasure, not shoot her to the
There are also two new inserts available that look more real. One is much
smaller and one somewhat larger (primarily wider) than the originals. Some women prefer
the new, soft, larger (fuller) one, but with women I've tried both with, most prefer the
original. The Sybian experience is different for different women and preferences between
the different inserts and stems (hard or soft) vary widely. Both new inserts are made of
silicone and priced at $34.95 each.
Abco's attractive oak storage cabinets make using Sybian easier and more
convenient. Stored inside, Sybian's already plugged in and ready to go. You can take it
out and be ready to use it in about 15 seconds. A concealed drawer holds accessories, and
there's a second outlet for a clock, radio or other light appliance. It is available in a
light, medium or dark stain finish and left or right hinged door at a cost of $299 plus
$30 for crating and shipping.
If you are curious what the heck Sybian is, ask for our extensive report
on Sybian by E-mail. It is also included in the comprehensive package of back reports if
you requested the $30/package for regular mail subscribers.
Liberated Christians Around The Globe
From: email@example.com (Iain)
Location : Edinburgh, Scotland
We receive (through Iain's email) your newsletter, and wholeheartedly support the views and doctrine expressed within. The two of us and a further couple would like to instigate a local group here in Edinburgh, or perhaps Scotland more generally, if none exists already. Iain and Fiona
From: (New Address) firstname.lastname@example.org
Location: Melbourne, Australia
I would like to once again congratulate you on the content and presentation of the Newsletter, which provides a thoroughly positive, wholesome, and practical approach to many issues that most of the population *need* to, but are hesitant to, come to terms with. Regarding the idea of people becoming local contacts, I would be more than happy to be listed as a contact for Australia, or Melbourne if you want to be specific - I think it would be good for those in Australia to be able to initiate dialog with others nearby, and perhaps I could act as a catalyst for that. Since receiving the newsletters, much of the content has served to enhance my relationship with my partner, so it would be good to "put something back in". Martin
From: 9278js <email@example.com>
Location: North Georgia near Tennessee
Regarding experience with responding to ads they say: .. they leave a lot to be desired. It seems they are only concentrating on sex and not the relationship. If love and commitment are not part of the package we are not going to invest since the returns will be shallow. If intimacy, caring, concern and compassion do not precede passion then you have one night stands which leave you wondering "is this all there is". We live in north Georgia near the Tennessee border. If you get any requests wanting to form a group in the Chattanooga, TN, area have them contact me. Sincerely, Steve & Deb
Dave - We always enjoy getting your newsletter. In part of the latest issue, you mentioned about receiving names for contact persons in different areas. My wife and I would consider starting an organization in our area. We live in Clearfield County, Pennsylvania . Dean & Wanda
From: Paul & Emily New England & Chicago
We would be pleased to be added to the list of couples to contact who are readers of your newsletter and interested in Christian Swinging. We are a professional couple who have been swinging (though we do not like the term) for the last 10 years. We have a Christian background and have been greatly influenced by the writings of Eisler ("Chalice & the Blade" and "Sacred Pleasure"). We have a strong spiritual presence but have been nurtured to embrace God by opening our lives (personally & sexually) with other couples. We are avid nudists and work in New England & Chicago. (Also see their personal ad in personal ad section.)
Thanks a lot for your incoming newsletters. I wish I could participate your gatherings, unfortunately the distance forbids me to have/share such experiences. My request here is perhaps you can introduce some of the Asian friends here who wish to share such knowledge and experience.
Majority of the oriental people are still conservative and shy. It will be
very difficult for me to open up their mind for such occasion, and nevertheless I do not
want to end up a swinging party which deviates from the original intention.
Dave's Note: He is interested in E-mail from others in Malaysia that want
to have a contact point, but prefers they reply to us and we will give address instead of
having his E-mail address published here.
OTHER RESOURCES WE RECOMMEND
Human Awareness Institute: Sex, Love & Intimacy Experiences
I hope this doesn't just sound like an ad, but I'll share about a group that has provided so many thousands of people a life changing awareness of true love, intimacy and sexuality (being so much more than genitals and thrusting). I learned more love in this group than in all my many years in conservative Christians churches, as an elder, Billy Graham counselor, etc. But I never really learned true love in a church. I and about 40,000 others have not just learned to love, but powerfully experienced love (real love not just sex!) via the Sex, Love & Intimacy Workshops conducted by Stan Dale's Human Awareness Institute (HAI).
Do you sometimes have sex when you really want love? Do you ever feel
lonely and unhappy even when you are in a relationship? What we don't realize is that our
very notions of these prevent us from having the successful intimate relationships we long
for. As a result we unknowingly do the same things we've always done in relationships. -
hope, pretend, cling, try harder, make do -- and get the same unsatisfying results time
and time again.
The group shows you in a caring, loving, supportive way, new ways of
relating and communicating that allow you to risk being even more loving and intimate. I
found that there is a lot more to sex than just sex, which is often more mechanical than
intimate and loving. They do much more than just discuss theories. In a caring, supportive
environment with people you have developed trust with, the walls around your heart will
gently melt. You will discover the freedom of letting yourself love and be loved at levels
you have always known were possible. You will go home with useful ways of allowing
yourself to experience deeper intimacy.
You also improve your relationship with yourself. You uncover your beauty,
power and love for self. This increased self-esteem, along with new possibilities for
relating, allows you to make exciting, powerful choices in your life and relationships
that you never before thought possible. Over almost 30 years about 40,000 individuals from
all walks of life have taken advantage of this extraordinary opportunity to enrich their
lives and relationships.
Founder Stan Dale is a sexologist, radio personality and author. Stan has
taught at universities and is on the faculty of the Institute for the Advanced Study of
Human Sexuality. He has annually led delegations to Russia and now China, and other parts
of the world to share empowering experiences. Stan and his wives Helen and Janet are
assisted by a dedicated group of caring, trained facilitators and other leaders. This is
the most powerful workshop available to deal with the important issues of love and
relationships. There are HAI groups in San Francisco, Los Angeles, Detroit, Russia,
Australia and Japan.
This is not a commercial. I have no financial interest, but I have never
found another group that really teaches intimacy, communications and sexuality like HAI.
It was very meaningful in my life and others I have suggested it to. Stan & Helen Dale
and others at HAI are also enthusiastic supporters of Liberated Christians and our work.
They also publish The Enlighten Journal - Real people sharing real experiences and real
feelings on the Human Potential Path.
In California there is the original group in San Francisco, an active
chapter in Los Angeles and some activities in San Diego. Short one-day intros are held in
all three areas with the main weekend- long workshops at Harbin Hot Springs outside San
Francisco and a center near Los Angeles
For info see Web site at http://www.hai.org
For Southern Calif (LA and San Diego) Stu or Claire Lichter or their
assistant at 310-378-1076.
For San Francisco or New England locations call the main HAI office at
800-800-4117 or, if local, 415-571-5524.
Michigan : Dayton & Renie Gnau at 313-383-2823.
Say hi from Dave at Liberated Christians if you call!
Also: Australia (very active group) Steve & Shirley Bowman at
011-616-236-6275 in Canberra.
Japan: Erina Ota : contact via HAI main office San Francisco shown above.
Catholic Source Supporting Sexual Freedom
A Bishop of the Free Catholic Church, he has been highly supportive of our
more liberal approach to sexuality. He is not only as a Catholic Bishop, but he also is a
Certified Sex Therapist, Diplomate and Clinical Supervisor of the American Board of
Sexology, as well as a Fellow in the American Academy of Clinical Sexologists. He has been
president of a large city's Mental Health Counselors Association. As a professional
sexologist he knows the terrible results of the shame and repression of natural sexuality.
As a sincere Catholic Bishop, he also respects the Church and its teachings but has the
freedom to integrate his positive sexual attitudes with Catholicism. He can be contacted
E-mail at firstname.lastname@example.org
or The Free Catholic Church, P.O. Box 1439, La Jolla, CA 92038-1439
The Free Catholic Church is an autonomous Catholic Church. Its bishops
trace their Apostolic lineage from the Petrine succession though those bishops under the
Archbishop of Rheims, who left the Roman Catholic Church objecting to the false teaching
of papal infallibility.
The Affiliate Worldwide Network of Open Minded Friends with Alternative Lifestyles
Loving More Magazine
Their magazine is a quarterly journal offering readers a growing body of
information and resources for folks living or exploring all new paradigm relationships.
Loving More is edited by Ryam Nearing and Brett Hill. Ryam has been publishing &
leading workshops on polyamory, group marriage and new paradigm relationships since 1984
and has been part of a group marriage since 1981. Brett is a body-centered therapist,
author & workshop leader who has lived in polyamorous spiritual communities and
believes passionately in loving more.
They also offer workshops that are focused specifically on the nuts and
bolts of healthy multiple adult relationships (called Tools for Loving More), as well as
an annual conference where the Loving More community can meet, share, and enjoy the
delightfully free and new culture they create together.
Various membership options are available or $24/year or $6 sample issue of
Loving More Magazine. You can subscribe on line or get more information at http://www.lovemore.com or write Loving More, Box 4358,
Boulder CO 80306 or phone (303) 543-7540.
Sacred Space Institute Deborah Anapol, PhD.
Sacred Space Institute offers workshops both on polyamory (responsible
non-monogamy) and sexual healing. Liberated Christians has written extensively on the
positive aspects of many Tantra/Tao teachings through which, even if you have no interest
in the Buddhist or Hindu traditions, you can have a very wonderful experience regardless
of your religious belief. Sometimes however, we hesitated to recommend groups too
"far out" into more spiritual beliefs than the concepts, ideas, and physical
positions which we believe are so useful in Tantra/Tao even without the spiritualism. I
raised this issue with Deborah and she replied, "I use 'Tantra' as a generic term for
Sacred Sexuality since that's a word many people are familiar with but our focus is much
more on Sexual Healing than on any particular religious orientation." She adds that
they take a more universal spiritual approach and "practice California-style tantra
which bears little resemblance to the Eastern variety." That sounds great to me and
is similar to the approach taken by Stan Dale and HAI, that of a universal spirituality
that most anyone can relate to. It is unfortunate, but one really has to look outside
Christianity to the ideas of many Eastern beliefs for meaningful integration of sexuality
December 17-31, 1996 Deborah Anapol and others will lead a year-end
retreat at Harbin Hot Springs (beautiful mountain community where Stan Dale, HAI Workshops
held), for "creating a community where love is abundant, the body is sacred, &
the Feminine is honored.
For information on various workshops or to order the Book Love Without
Limits, write or call Dr. Deborah Anapol, PO Box 4322, San Rafael, CA 94913 415-507-1739.
Phoenix Community Circle
Arizona Stroking Community
People never outgrow their need to touch and be touched, and suppressing
those needs is hazardous to health, both physical and emotional. The group provides a safe
environment for giving and receiving good strokes in a supportive, nurturing environment
for friends to enjoy clothing optional, non-sexual massage, respecting the personal
privacy and boundaries of each individual.
The Stroking Community was originally a national network of groups founded
by David Linton and four others based on massage workshops held in Philadelphia in the
1970s, led by some of the prime developers of Esalen massage. Their motto was:
"massage a way of love".
I attended, in the 1980s, Stroking Community workshops on the East Coast,
enhancing both the physical and loving spiritual aspects of Esalen massage by doing group
massage. I have a detailed description of Esalen massage available on request if
Before moving to Phoenix I lived in Minneapolis all my life and was very
active in the Minnesota Therapeutic Massage Network of professional therapists. At an
annual meeting we had David Linton as the keynote speaker. He was outstanding in his
expression of loving mankind and expressing it with massage. Sadly he died suddenly and
unexpectedly soon after this presentation. The biography he wrote for the speech turned
out to be his obituary, published by The Stroking Times newsletter, March, 1987. We use a
short tape in the Liberated Christian massage workshop which shows David, a hunchedback
older man with a heart of gold and filled with love which he taught and expressed through
The Arizona Stroking Community is more than seven years old and meets
monthly at homes throughout the Valley. There is a couples only group and a main group
which meets on the 2nd Sat of each month for everyone. Single men need to make
reservations or be on a waiting list since there often is "too much male energy"
and gender balance is roughly maintained. Some of the members are also active in our
Liberated Christian group. For information on the Arizona Stroking Community contact
founder, Neil Baker, at 602-276-3965. We do not have any information on other remaining
communities since there is no longer any central coordination or listing of various
Anakosha Village Of Freedom The Sanctuary Private Party House
One of the few people I've met in the lifestyle with such an interest in
bringing more intimacy to swinging is Nancy, founder of Club Sensitivity Seminars, which
for 12 years offered seminars on swinging in Tampa before her husband died and a local
preacher tried to get their group closed. Nancy with her new husband Doug have founded
Anakosha and the Sanctuary and host seminars and weekly swing parties again. They are
dedicated to the exploration of sexual and spiritual freedom. For more info write
Anakosha, 2338 Immokalee Road, #146, Naples, FL 33942 or call 941-436-2014.
Family Synergy Southern California
The Cottage In Pennsylvania
As an experiment and subject to change we invite personal ads from
couples. We ask that they be limited to about 50 words and they are subject to our
approval. We cannot accept single male advertisers just looking for partners since such
ads are very unlikely to bring any response. We encourage couples to advertise special
interests. We will run ads for two issues and then they will have to be resubmitted.
Please include in your ad contact information which can be E-mail address only or complete
mailing address and/or phone. Remember, however, not all subscribers have E-mail
HI! I'm a MWF, 35, 5'4", 123lbs, that is interested in expanding my circle of friends and lovers. I am a very loving and caring person and have my husband's support and encouragement to explore new relationships with others. I live in Northern New Jersey and am interested in Christian people in this area (from NY to PA) that share the attitude about sexuality as discussed in the Liberated Christians Newsletter. Are you a couple or a group that would like to share some quality time with another friend? I so, I would be interested in hearing from you. Please write to P.O. Box 5646, Clark, NJ 07066. I look forward to meeting you soon!
Attractive, healthy, M/W/C, 40's, priorities- friendship, courtesy, honesty, fun, discretion. and sensual adventures. Enjoy many indoor & outdoor activities, She's playful, enjoys giving pleasure and open minded. He's easy going, humorous and fun loving. (5'7", 32D-22-36, 135 lb, brown/ green-hazel ; 6'0", 185 lb, brown/ brown). Thanks, B&B P.O. Box 86102 Tucson, AZ. 85754
We live just west of Boston, Massachusetts and are interested in meeting other like-minded couples. We would like to be listed in your listing. Thanks, Richard & Peggy
Happily married professional couple, both in 40s, located in Huntington - Charleston area of West Virginia. We are Christians and are seeking a special friendship with other like-minded couples. We love the beach and wood fires on winter days. Write Box 9000, Spring Hill Station, South Charleston, WV 25309
Hello! We are a MWC in eastern PA, 38 & 42 yrs old. T is 5' 6" 155 lb. D is 5' 8" 165 lb. We are looking for other open minded christian couples for friendship. We are christians who are involved in the swinging lifestyle. Looks and age are unimportant, we are very nonjudgemental and believe in accepting people for who they are on the inside. See our web page at: now bad link Drop us a line, we love makeing new friends. Email: email@example.com Address: PO Box 391, Blue Ball, PA 17506
We are Paul & Emily, an attractive couple in our 40's who have been in the swinging scene (off and on) for a few years. We are both professionals. We are interested in meeting new couples (couples only) via correspondence or meetings. We reside in the northeast (we live in northern New England) and Chicago (we travel to Chicago monthly on business). We are interested in meeting other couples during our visits or in New England. Furthermore, to make matters even more confusing, we are co-owners of a condo at Paradise Lakes near Tampa. Paradise Lakes is a clothes-optional resort. We would also be interested in meeting couples in Tampa. We look forward to hearing from you and providing a more detailed description about us. Paul & Emily firstname.lastname@example.org
From email@example.com, Philadelphia
I'm director of Aquarian Research working on the positive future for the planet. Judy and I have been in open marriage 20 years and are looking for others to form a group marriage community to work on a positive future for all.
Dave's Note: Art has been active in many Intentional Community Groups and
writes many articles. Aquarian Research also has a newsletter and other information. You
can write Art Rosenblum: 5620 Morton Street, Philadelphia, PA 19144.
Would love to meet other liberated Christians in NW Oklahoma for
fellowship and discussion, especially near Enid. Vern Rossman (405)234-0416 E-Mail:
Return To Section Index Page
Back To Home Page
Copyright © 1997, Liberated Christians, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.